Tesla will sue you for $50,000 if you try to resell your Cybertruck in the first year::Tesla may agree to buy the truck back at the original price minus “$0.25/mile driven” and any damages and repairs.
How is that legal?
lobut’s explainer video explains the contract law provision, but to be honest, it’s a deeply cynical use of contract law. The reason is that typically (and for nearly every piece of retail-sold property), you have property rights exactly like what everyone in this thread is intuiting. Those property rights absolutely would give you the right to resell.
Contract law trumps those rights, and Cena signed a contract. That is where the discussion keeps ending. But a court, if it’s circumspect enough, may continue the case long enough to examine how property and contract rights are in conflict. And it’s entirely possible property rights may win in the end.
Why? Because the contract may be invalid if it is “illusory.” An illusory contract is as it sounds based on a false presumption of exchanged value (“consideration”) or a false promise of performance from Tesla. Here, Tesla may be technically complying with contract consideration requirements by lumping the actual Cybertruck into the value exchange, which sounds right from a contract law perspective. However, if Tesla is not offering substantial value beyond what a typical retail sale would be, and if they are only offering the same ongoing services as typical retail customers, there is a small chance a court may decide that the contract is a pretext to in fact simply (and illegally) limiting property rights.
That said, I’d give it maybe a 5% chance of success. Contract law is one thing most judges will almost never interfere with. Which is why Tesla and others are doing it. They typically only do it with cars like high-end sports cars.
But importantly, it could become commonplace for anything you buy even at retail when combined with “clickwrap” agreements - i.e., agreements like in software that activate when you use or open the product. So it’s very very important that we continue to push back on this.
I saw an episode of LegalEagle (I think it was about NFTs) and it’s a terms of sale thing and he spoke about John Cena doing something similar with Ford:
I found the LegalEagle episode:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=C6aeL83z_9Y&si=vONBqJ14_KZ65lF8
It’s around 6:49
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They should let people sell at a loss if they want to, but otherwise I see no problem with this.
Edit: I guess it would be easy to fake the amount paid for the vehicle if they allowed selling to anyone.
Absolute deal-breaker. I will not be dictated to on what I may or may not do with my personal private property, beyond the bounds of the law.
Did you write this on a PC or iPhone?
I borrowed your mom’s Zune.
You weren’t buying one anyway, what a weird comment.
You seem highly interested in whether I would have purchased one or not. What a weird comment.
Because otherwise, you would have bought one.
In fact, I would not. But even if I would, this bullshit would be a deal breaker. It’s basically saying “we know you’re going to regret this purchase, but we’re going to put a barrier in place to keep you from dealing with it.” That’s a gigantic red flag for any product.
Well here’s the thing, they don’t want it to be your personal private property, nevermind that you bought it they still want it to be theirs.
Fun fact, I could give a fuck what they want.
Isn’t the fact that the thing is ugly and poorly-designed more of a deal-breaker?
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Is an electric vehicle really the best choice for you if you live in the mountains? I’m pro-electric vehicle but the thing about them is they really shine in denser areas where everything is close by. Unless your remote mountain region also has an adequate amount of superchargers but I feel like I probably wouldn’t.
Absolutely. You can easily create electricity on a remote mountain. Creating gasoline… that’s not really possible. You have to pay a fortune for someone to deliver it (or worse, go get it yourself). You can’t get gasoline delivered in bulk either - common ethanol blended gasoline can spoil in just two months and wherever you’re buying it from might have already stored it for a month or more.
Gas prices in back country areas are often double or quadruple what people pay in the city and living there also means driving a lot more per week. Electricity on the other hand is practically free if you produce it yourself (small scale hydro for example can cost a couple thousand dollars for reliable continuous power and if you’re in the mountains then you probably have that option).
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but I’d really, really love a car that doesn’t ding if you look at it the wrong way.
Well you better hope you never ding the Cybertruck unless you want to replace an entire stainless steel panel and hope it aligns properly.
Perfect panel alignment is more than one can expect from a Tesla direct from the factory
And the “bare stainless steel body panels” isn’t a new thing on a production car.
Unsurprisingly they had a ton of issues with it back then too.
Also it’s stainless steel, not scratchless steel. Anyone who’s scrubbed a stainless steel pan knows they scratch up quickly.
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sounds like you’d be best off getting an electric conversion if you really want something like that, I don’t think any manufacturer will be producing something like that anytime soon
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I don’t know if you’ve ever owned anything with brushed stainless panels, but ding-proof they are not, and they’re generally WAY more noticeable. They also still need to be clear coated, otherwise every panel will become discolored over time.
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otherwise every panel will become discolored over time.
Yeah I don’t care about that. My issue with my current truck is many of the places (50?) where I’ve scratched the paint off, and cleaned/re-painted it as soon as I could, have started to rust - which is probably going to result in the car being sold for scrap metal even though it’s still perfectly drivable. Eventually that rust is going to become more than just a cosmetic problem and the car definitely isn’t worth the time required to fix it properly (cut out the rust and put new sheet metal in it’s place).
I won’t be buying a cybertruck… but I definitely would prefer stainless steel over mild steel body panels. I’d like aluminium even better (stainless steel does still rust, just not as easily).
, but I’d really, really love a car that doesn’t ding if you look at it the wrong way.
Then don’t buy a Tesla, those pieces of shit fall apart if a bird shits on it.
There are multiple deal-breakers, yest.
is this even legal ?
it’s been done before by plenty of other auto companies. I remember Toyota had that for the LFA, Ford did it with the GT, etc.
Hopefully it gets challenged.
I do not believe it would be unless you had previously signed a contact agreeing to the conditions. If that doesn’t hold water I could see tesla arguing that you are allowed to sell the vehicle however you may not sell the software included in the vehicle as that’s their intellectual property and they only authorized you to use it. And since you can’t separate the software from the vehicle it would accomplish the same thing.
You can sue anyone anywhere anytime. If you have really good expensive lawyers you might just win.
Presumably, as a term of delivery, you’ll sign an agreement not to sell with 50K USD as the liquidated damages. So, yeah probably.
It probably is, a la Ferrari.
That vehicle looks like its trying too hard to be futuristic.
Capitalism is so schizophrenic. Is supply and demand in a free market meant to decide the value of goods or not?? If regulations and penalties are required, why not across the board??
Tesla doesn’t want some other company to buy all its vehicles and turn around and sell them at a higher price, damaging the press around the Tesla brand and stopping its cars from getting to would-be Tesla super fans. It’s the same reason stores will sometimes say “limit 2 per customer” on certain items.
That’s one reason, anyway.
If regulations and penalties are required, why not across the board??
for thee, not for me
as always
A company is not capitalism. Pure capitalism without any regulation doesn’t work, because it tends towards having one big company that controls everything. However, every single company by itself strives towards that goal, bribing politicians to get its way when necessary. Thus, if those bribes go unpunished (like through the Citizens United decision in the US), capitalism eventually eliminates itself.
It’s all well and good in theory but when you have a hit item to sell, you don’t want to make scalpers rich doing it. Absolute freedom = shit show every time. Peolle really need to grow up and learn how to be conservatives without being literalist absolutists about every damn thing.
you don’t want to make scalpers rich doing it
But why not? Surely people have the freedom to spend their money on legal goods?
I understand the situation; Tesla can’t make money selling to the general public at scalper rates, and scalpers are somewhat eating into Tesla profits. It’s all a scheme to ensure money goes to corporations first. That’s why the pharmaceutical industry is so fucked.
sUrElY pEoPlE hAvE thE FrEEdoM tO SpENd tHEir MoNeY oN lEgAl gOOds
Way to argue against a point no one made.
Arbitrage subtracts value from both vendor and buyer while producing no value. It’s a rent-seeking behavior applied to retail. It sucks, period. As you can see, Tesla wants none of it, and buyers don’t want a bunch of assholes boosting prices.
And there are perfectly legal ways to stop it, too. Have you ever been to a concert where the.l name of the ticket buyer has to match the name of the attendee’s ID? Tom Waits did that on the Mule Variations tour and it’s a) the only reason I was able to see him and b) the only reason I was able to see him for $40.
Fuck scalpers.
Can I set up an LLC and use that company to buy the car? Then, collapse the LLC, and sell the car at a giant markup to whoever’s dumb enough to buy it
While this is an asshole move, companies like Ferrari do stuff like this too. They, for example, do not allow certain modifications on their cars and if they find out that you have done them, they will ask you to restore those parts back to originals. It is unreal how much car companies try to get from us.
Papa Enzo knows best. Don’t understand how that’s legal unless it’s some sort of lease agreement
Well, you’re welcome to not buy a Ferrari if you don’t like the strings attached, right?
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Implying this, less attractive than a Lego brick, thing is as desirable as a Ferrari is… Insane
Can I mount a towing hook for my camper?
Tesla is making it harder and harder to dare buy an electric vehicle.
Implying they produce enough to sell any at all, anyone is dumb enough to buy one, anyone if dumb enough to buy it off another dummy who bought one.
This is just Tesla stirring up a story, and trying to make it seem like anyone wants one of these monstrosities, and that they can make them.
I have a friend who preordered a cybertruck. But then again he also bought a model 3 and model X.
So you don’t own the thing you brought, you’re going to be the biggest mug buying this
What is Tesla?
It’s shit behavior that should be illegal, but I also can’t feel bad for any moron that sees this truck and still agrees to buy it.
In this situation there would be two morons
Very true.
Is this to be an asshole, or to avoid people reselling the car at x2 the price because of the lack of supply during the first year?
I hate Musk, but if this is intended to prevent price go urging, it might be a good thing (see nvidia scalpers)
Even with the best of intentions, which I doubt is the case here, a company that sells you a product shouldn’t be allowed to dictate what you do with the product once you’ve purchased it. They can be selective about who they sell products to, and use that as a barrier to attempt to stop scalpers. But once I own something if I want to turn around and resell it the manufacturer should have no say in that.
So because your personal taste is not in favor of this car, you don’t feel bad for people who happen to like it. Got it. Moral superiority is alive and well.
Agree with the sentiment but not the tone.
This is a good thing!
It will reduce the number of flippers that but the truck just to sell it for more the next day.
ain’t no flippers coming for the cybertruck
Come on now, let’s not be that delusional. Doesn’t matter if you love or hate Tesla/Elon Musk, but Tesla has become a juggernaut that hard to deny. I hate their cars, but it’s seems to be the most common modern car I see on the road (by modern I just mean newish cars).
Their shoddy build quality and the rise of electric cars from old school car companies could kill them very quickly. I don’t think Europe amd Asia have as much of an affinity to Tesla as America does.
It sells fairly well in Europe actually. I was in Italy this past summer and was surprised at how many Teslas I saw(not A LOT, but more than I was expecting). I looked it up and saw that it has sold over 200k in 2022 in Europe, for comparison, Tesla sold 350,000 in the US. I know it’s a bit apples to oranges (country to continent), but US just has a huge market cap for personal motor vehicle, so it’s a fair comparison imo.
I do agree with you though, that knowledge about their shobby quality is getting more widespread. So maybe cybertruck will sell like shit.
Big, dumb, ugly, and prone to running into walls? Yeah, I guess the comparison of Tesla to Juggernaut holds up.
Hey! Juggernaut is beautiful
You’re joking right? Imagine rolling up to the party in one of these.
You are getting laid that night, probably with multiple people.
Is it an incel party?
Any idiot willing to overpay for that whateverthefuckitis gets what they deserve.
I can’t wait to make fun of one of these in the wild. What a stupid, ugly vehicle.
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are we doing the jerk off motion? I think it’d be pretty neat if everywhere you drove one of these people did the jerk off motion at you
You need more meaningful things going on in your life.
Hey, now… Don’t go tearing on people’s hobbies!
I actually have developed a language of pure meaning, it’s communicated entirely via the jerk off motion
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They are usually seen grazing together with tech bros
