Hilarious. Logitech’s software has always been an afterthought and now they want me to pay for it? Goooo fuck yourselves. I had to sell a perfectly good keyboard and mouse because their stupid g-hub is harder to navigate than a g-spot.
It kept doing updates and every time it did, it would clobber all my macros and bindings and basically factory reset. I had a txt document on my desktop with all my configs so I could set them back up whenever it decided the configuration gods required a sacrifice.
I started boycotting them when they started forcing a program to be downloaded, installed and run automatically on any pc running Windows 10 just by plugging a Logitech mouse/keyboard in to the USB port.
It installes through Windows Update, and is called Logitech Download Helper.
I am fine with Windows Update supplying and installing drivers, but using it to deploy program is scummy…
So now, I am on Xtrfy mice and Ducky keyboards.
…I feel sorry for your girlfriend/wife.
My girlfriend doesn’t have one, teehee 🤭
Go on, tell us how you work the spot, G Man.
You basically have to go behind the clitoris and stimulate it from the back while working it from the front with your tongue.
Damn you got a lucky mouse
Almost spat out my food, thanks
Our boys dick looks like the lower case letter ‘u’ well done
🤷♂️ My girl just lays on top of me and rides up and down along me, and that seems to do the trick. Not every time, mind you. But that’s the position that does it, if it happens.
Which is freaking great for me because I love that position. 🤤 Lots of skin on skin.
For hours.
Hours! Then you ain’t hittin’ it, son.
G-hub also doesn’t work on Linux, which is actually a massive advantage. I use Solaar with a couple of shell scripts and it’s amazing. (edit) Actually it’s a Python app, so it might even work on Windows.
I’ve also had to blacklist the HID++ kernel module because high-res scrolling on a loose, mushy ratcheting wheel is awful.
G Hub doesn’t work with my old trusty G11 keyboard either. Since it’s both required for Logitech’s newer peripherals and also requires uninstalling the old Logitech Gaming Software which would reduce the functionality of my keyboard, it effectively banishes any future consideration for Logitech’s peripherals.
It’s basically moot since I run Linux now, but I don’t fancy the quality of Logitech’s products either these days. It’s a shame since their stuff used to be really solid. My X540 speakers are as old as my keyboard (16 years) and also refuse to die.
Oh man I was hoping this would be a sub for alternatives to subscriptions, rather than just pointing out that everything is going to a subscription model.
It’s not against the rules of that community to post alternatives. I suspect the community members would love that.
Alternative to subscription based mouse…any other fucking mouse. Hell, I’d rather use that piece of crap they sell at walgreens for $15.99. It looks like crap, has only 2 buttons, is wired, but it doesn’t have a damn subscription.
are mice not supposed to have only 2 buttons??? (excluding scroll wheel)
Mine has left click, right click, scroll wheel, back, forward, and a programable button which I use to switch windows.
I got two like that from China for about 2 bucks each, shipping included.
Nowadays a shitty 15 cent microcontroller comes with built-in USB hardware support and you can use the manufacturer’s libraries or even Arduino to make it talk as a keyboard or mouse with any computer (which doesn’t even need drivers since support for it is built-in) and it’s actually the mechanical stuff that’s the most expensive bit.
There really is no reason or need to endure this mouse subscription shit.
I like my Intellimouse Pro. I haven’t had a single issue with clicking or scrolling for as long as I’ve had it (5+ years?). It’s a bit pricey, but it works well. I’ve spent more replacing Logitech mice in the time I’ve had that one.
Oh neat, I think I might subscribe to that community.
Wait a goddamned minute
My Halo account name is fuckmandatorysignins@personalDomain.com
Fuck you Microsoft, fuck you Logitech, if the Internet goes down, I’m fucked…
I always give “companyname@personaldomain.com”
That way datasets are harder to correlate and I know who leaked 😝
That’s what I’ve been doing since 2002. If I get spam, I set up a forward to their customer service.
Lol! I need to start doing something like this when one of those email addresses eventually ends up in a breach. :D
Be wary though, it might get your domain blacklisted for spam. I’ve been lucky so far.
Good to know! Thanks for the warning. c: My default course of action will likely be just disabling the old alias and making a new one.
I have mice that I bought 35 years ago that still work. I had to replace the buttons on one I got 20yrs ago, but it’s a daily driver and the switches are hella cheap and like a 5min solder job. Make them socketed and it’s now a forever mouse. Done.
This is so absurd. The only updates peripherals need are firmware bug fixes. And it’s a standard that these updates are free. Having subscriptions for hardware is kinda dystopic tbh
From the podcast:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
You know why on average people spend so little? Because a mouse is just a mouse. It doesn’t need to do anything besides controlling the cursor. It doesn’t need a “dedicated AI button that launches Logi AI Prompt Builder” (which is just a ChatGPT wrapper btw)
I don’t want to be that one person that just complains about capitalism under every post, but things like this make it hard. We have already perfected the design of a mouse. But every year publicly traded companies need to make more money than in the previous year, so let’s add subscriptions to everything. And also AI, because investors love it
Having subscriptions for hardware
actually how i understand that model, the subscription would not be for the “hardware” (which you would still have to ‘buy’ and pay for all of its repairs by yourself) but only for the software which would actually block you from using your own hardware if you stop paying the then-later-by-them-to-be-definded-price for the ‘licence’ to use that software, rendering the hardware a useless piece of junkscrap whenever and as long as they whish or their cloud runs on MShitsoft or is maybe ClownStricken, MacAfff’ed, CEO’ed, CTO’ed, Shareholder’ed or such).
That f*up-idea is afaik explicitly NOT a renting model for hardware where they’ld had to make sure that it actually works before you have to pay the rent, but only a licensing software for that only software that is vendor-locked-in on that vendor-poisoned hardware.
As i know myself, i guess i’ll discontinue to buy or suggest any of their stuff for a few decades from now, for that “idea” only.
Have a nice® day without logitech!
What can I say? I see “Capitalism bad” and I upvote.
Yeah, apparently the subscription for the mouse would be on top of the upfront cost. I’m honestly baffled that Logitech’s CEO thinks anyone would buy it, this feels like an april fools joke
Wait so the subscription literally doesn’t cover anything it’s just the money I pay to Logitech for no reason?
I just skimmed through the podcast so I might be wrong, but it looks like the subscription would only cover updates to their AI “features”:
‘[…] is there a vision beyond “the software will do more for you” than just drive your mouse around?’
[…] Should the mouse do more than just move the cursor? Absolutely. And it does that today, and I think similarly about being more productive with shortcuts to the large language models and all kinds of other things. The guy that I met at a barbecue over the weekend who has programmed 120 shortcuts on his mouse, that’s the kind of stuff that can extend human potential in ways that are healthier.
i believe such happens only bcs society lets people into such positions without checking them to be fit in any way for anything except them having a bank account for receiving millions and a lawyer to check contracts and tell them what they should not say in public and receive parts of these millions in return for changing their customers “pampers”.
or maybe that brainfart was just part of a trip on randomly mind altering illegal substances? or maybe a brain tumor? or maybe a brain parasite? or maybe a parasite brain? or maybe just normal capitalism? or maybe a tumor that grows in society?
i guess we will never know for sure.
I agree. We collectively overconsume, where are the manufacturers with pride in building quality devices that just work?
I’m a hardware engineer, I’d be embarrassed to release some of the shit I’ve seen onto the market for public consumption.
The rules are simple: solid state where you can, robust enclosures that can withstand common cleaners & IV exposure, geometry that makes it difficult for those cleaning fluids to get into the electronics. That’s it, you’ve got most people covered with a reliable device to interact with daily. Pinch pennies on the RGB LEDs, not the housing!
But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low.
Yeah because it’s a mouse. What extra features is it going to have if I paid $100.
I have an idea for Logitech: Go fuck yourselves
corporate brain rot
my forever mouse is a 15+ years old mx518
Right? If it was a g604 I might be tempted…
Luckily I can buy a perfectly decent mouse that lasts forever for £5
As long as it’s not that god awful ThinkPad mouse that every corporation seems to give people.
No thank you, and get fucked.
In other words: They want me to never buy a Logitech product ever again. Fuck you greedy corporate shitpiles!
Side question since this concept is obviously rent seeking… Why is there not a market for premium custom mice like there are for keyboards?
All the mice over the ~$80 range seem to only be gamer mice or focus on adding more and more buttons. Why aren’t there options that are customizable or more premium?
I get that no one wants a solid machined aluminum mouse but surely there is something more premium than adding more buttons.
Custom keyboards took off because of mechanical switches. Back in the day people wanted mechanical switches because they last longer than membrane ones, and so you wound up with a bunch of companies producing relatively easy to manufacture mechanical switches. Those switches all felt and sounded a little different so you got people who wanted a specific feel and sound and it grew from there.
There hasn’t really been the same push with mice because even really cheap ones work really well. Optical sensors are way harder to produce than key switches, and while there are a few different ones on the market other than dpi and polling rate they kind of all act the same - it kind of either tracks right or it doesn’t. There’s no differentiation unlike switches that are “tactile” or “linear” or “scratchy”. And because of size restrictions you can’t really have the same kind of switches as keyboards use for the buttons. And unlike the really niche keyboard people who do their own PCB and machine their own case, making a good mouse on your own from scratch is way more difficult. They’re weird shaped and it’s much more difficult to change things like optical tracking algorithms compared to macros on a 40% keyboard. You can do a run of 100 super niche keyboards and make it work, but just the injection molds for one mouse mean you need to make 10000, which stops it being a project and makes it a business.
There are premium mice manufacturers, but in general they either are going super light, super ergonomic, or super functional - and honestly they have a hard time competing with a company like Logitech that can produce really similar features for a fraction of the cost and have a decent reputation to boot.
It’s trackball that are premium in fact
But the Ploopy mouse already exists.
This concept should be expanded to every industry to show the idea itself is unscrupulous.
When subscription services is shown it should alert consumers to predatory practices
Yeah, maybe work on making their switches not start double-clicking after a couple of years first.
I’m on my third-or-fourth one that has done this to me. Once this one gets too bad (they inevitably do) I am through with them. It’s a shame because I really do like their peripherals. The mouse that convinced to keep buying them was an excellent device that lasted a very long time and I only replaced because it was a dinosaur. I used their solar powered keyboard for a decade-and-a-half, too, until I accidentally dropped something on it and broke it. Now, the switches in their mice die on me after a year or two without fail. They’ve clearly cheaped out on components. Fuck em. Goodbye Logitech. I will not miss their software.
I went down a rabbit hole when my mouse started double clicking wanting to know why, especially compared to older mice that seem to last forever. turns out the switches themselves technically haven’t changed or even dropped in quality much over the years, they’ve always used the same shit-tier switches. many modern mice use too low of a voltage and operate out of spec, and the otherwise good enough switches don’t hold up. here’s an hour+ long youtube video about it if you want all the details.
it’s bullshit that it’s necessary, but if you’re willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
That might be worth it. I’ll have to see if I can find those switches.
most logitech mice use the same switches, any Japanese Omron switches will work (avoid the Chinese Omrons). here’s an amazon link to a 2-pack. there’s also a bunch of other switch types nearly as varied as keyboard switches, these are what I put in my mouse, but if you’re just looking to stop the double-clicking the Japanese Omrons are the way to go.
Oooh. I’m sure I can find those in Korea. Thanks!
The annoying thing is that fixing the double click is stupidly easy. Years ago, I got frustrated with that exact problem (after a string of 3 mice that each lasted only a few months); so I opened one up and soldered on a random capacitor I had lieing around.
Capacitors like that cost literally less than a penny, and are no more complicated to install at production time than any other component already on the circuit board.
I didn’t know it was a capacitor. I thought it was bent springs. I managed to fix one once by opening up the switches and bending the springs back, but it went back to double clicking within a month, and the process was not easy. I’ve got huge hands, and those switches are tiny.
The actual difference between a working new mouse and a failing double click mouse is in the button itself (mechanical parts are almost always the problem).
However, it is not some exotic failure mode. All mechanical switches have a “bounce”, where the contact makes and breaks a few times before settling into the connected position. Switches are typically designed to make the actual contact spring loaded (which is the origin of the click sound you here). As they age, this mechanism degrades, making the bouncing problem worse.
However, this is a well understood problem that any electrical engineer should be familiar with. One solution is to install a filter capacitor. Now it takes longer to switch between the on and off state, so the inherent bounce in the switch is smoothed out to the point where you cannot detect it.
They probably did testing with a new switch, and decided that they didn’t need to include any explicit debounce component, ignoring the fact that the switch would degrade over its lifetime.
So, the capacitor can mitigate the spring weakening. Good to know. Replacing a cap is probably much easier than taking the switches apart and bending the springs.
I just wish I could find another mouse with the same form factor as the G602/604. That button layout on the side is so nice. I go looking for an alternative every now and then but nothing I’ve found matches it so I’m stuck. I’m on my third 602 and fortunately it seems to be the charm because I’ve had this one for several years and it’s still going strong but it’s certainly annoying that I had to RMA 2 of them to get a lasting one. I also had to do the same with 2 of their headsets. They didn’t even have me send the mouse back last time so I have a second one with a double click problem laying around here somewhere I might see about swapping the switch out one of these days. and yea, the software does suck.
604
That’s the one I’m using now. I like the buttons, too. I also find I only really use them in some pretty niche cases, so I can probably do without.
On my 602 I have them set for switching browser tabs, forward, back, copy, paste, right click>save as, and shift. Those get a lot of use. Then I have specific profiles for some games/apps I use. I would miss that a lot if I had to switch.
Oooh, some of those sound like a really good idea. I’m only using mine for forward and back in browser, but next tab sounds good. Copy and paste, too.
the switches are pretty straightforward to swap out, fwiw. fairly large and reasonably spaced pins to solder compared to any other mouse hardware. tbh the disassembly and reassembly of my g604 to get to them was more effort than replacing the switches themselves.
Yea, I actually replaced the spring inside the switch on the mouse with one out of a mouse I “disposed of” at the place I was working at the time. It got me a few more years out of it.
It really feels like they developed a revenue stream prior to developing a product. All we’ve heard is some “Ai features” would be a subscription service, but their software has been preety universally mid at best, and AI is starting to see some backlash. We are seeing companies try to cram AI into everything even when it has no purpose being there. I get the feeling that companies are starting to catch onto this AI investments have become ridiculously expensive and have provided nearly zero additional value to their products and services.
As a Linux user, I don’t even know what features their software has, nor do I particularly care. If it points and clicks, I’m happy.
What I want from Logitech is to make mice that point and click more reliably, and ideally make them repairable. I hate throwing out mice just because of a double-click issue when I could just replace a sensor or something.
Here’s my proposal:
- make a handful of base models with varying core features (wireless, low-latency, lots of inputs)
- sell parts like shells, sensors, PCBs, etc that customers can replace on their own - no need to replace a mouse because you don’t like the feel, just get a new chassis
- there is no step 3
It really feels like they developed a revenue stream prior to developing a product.
That’s what everyone big and well bribed in with regulators and such does today.
This is obviously true.
Not that a commercial company shouldn’t do that.
It’s just - what exactly are they going to sell? What need are they going to fulfill, what bottleneck are they going to widen, what river cross with a bridge? For customers, of course.
When companies that sell physical products like peripherals (as an example) try to invoke the subscription model, it just says that they are failing and desperate for profits. Which means that other products are available and better.
I’m kind of surprised they haven’t decided to do what MS does with controller, or smart watch manufacturers do with watch bands. Create unique collectible colors, have a design lab, etc. Let people treat mice like sunglasses. A fashion accessory that you occasionally change or augment for aesthetic reasons.
I don’t need a new mouse ever year, but I might be down to change it’s shell.
Please don’t. we already produce and waste a lot of plastic as it is
Except their mice are built better and last longer than any of the popular gaming brands. I’ve owned 4 logitech nice in my life and that would be every mouse I’ve owned since 1995 and only one of those actually died. People complain about their razer mice lasting 3 years and then go out and buy another one as if that’s normal meanwhile you can easily get 5+ years out of a logitech mouse.
5 years isn’t a long lifespan.
Only one ever died on me (brother spilled beer on it) and that was after 6ish years. The rest were upgrades to newer models. My current mouse (mx master) is coming up on 8 years and I’m debating between replacing the battery or getting a newer model but it still works as well as it ever has.
I used to only buy logitech, but having a $125. mouse freak out after a few years, and I never game, that’s sad.
I have owned 3 G203 mice (never again) and they have all failed the same way, with the left mouse button switch failing and causing double clicks/inability to select anything without resetting.
Quality must depend on which model you get.
I only go for their higher end productivity mice so I can’t say much about their gaming gear. It seems like gaming mice, regardless of the brand, typically have shorter lifespans. Either that or gamers are just more vocal when there are issues.
