Mazda recently surprised customers by requiring them to sign up for a subscription in order to keep certain services. Now, notable right-to-repair advocate Louis Rossmann is calling out the brand.

It’s important to clarify that there are two very different types of remote start we’re talking about here. The first type is the one many people are familiar with where you use the key fob to start the vehicle. The second method involves using another device like a smartphone to start the car. In the latter, connected services do the heavy lifting.

Transition to paid services

What is wild is that Mazda used to offer the first option on the fob. Now, it only offers the second kind, where one starts the car via phone through its connected services for a $10 monthly subscription, which comes to $120 a year. Rossmann points out that one individual, Brandon Rorthweiler, developed a workaround in 2023 to enable remote start without Mazda’s subscription fees.

However, according to Ars Technica, Mazda filed a DMCA takedown notice to kill that open-source project. The company claimed it contained code that violated “[Mazda’s] copyright ownership” and used “certain Mazda information, including proprietary API information.”

  • @firepenny@lemmy.world
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    495 months ago

    Why does the car need an internet connection? Rather get a car from 2005-2010 that doesn’t connect to the internet, more have a stupid subscription.

    • @njordomir@lemmy.world
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      45 months ago

      Yep, I got a very basic trim 2010-2015 car. I think it’s about as new as you can get without really bad enshitification. The upper trims even had some of the gimmicks and techy stuff. I loath to think if the day this car dies. I may only ride my bike from that point on.

      • @Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 months ago

        If you do get an e bike later know that some brands are very bad with reliability and support so you can end up with a $2000 brick on wheels. Case in point: Rad Power Bikes, their batteries can die just a year after purchase even with good maintenance and their support will simply ignore you if you try to claim a warranty repair/replacement.

  • @werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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    -65 months ago

    …And the third third-party way where you can clap on clap off the engine! It was fairly convenient for people who lived out of the city or a comfy isolation room. In Mexico they will also banned the whistle on 3rd party option where the owner would come up with a special whistle pattern to turn on the engine. Engines in the US would become confused and dangerous on the 4rth of July due to the constant pops and whistle noises. That’s why we never saw those features here.

    • @GhostFaceSkrilla@lemmy.world
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      205 months ago

      But but, did you see the new “brand x brand x brand” product? The one where all the brands are owned by the same mega-corp and they just decided to smoosh their products together?

      Innovation is dead and buried.

      • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️
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        55 months ago

        There’s an empty spot at the bottom of that list and the author – who by the way is a monster – could have easily included Subaru.

      • @Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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        95 months ago

        Hilariously, due to the teardrop shape, cars like this would be more aerodynamic if the shell was reversed.

        Car companies do not want to innovate, because aerodynamic cars are “lame”, “soy”, etc.

        People seem to have a low tolerance for what is considered weird when it comes to cars. That’s why most cars look the same. (Likely due to marketing and peer pressure)

        Bar Atera, Ariel and a couple of other “unconventional” designs, and a handful of other concept cars. (Fuck the cybercrap, it’s the opposite of innovation)

        TL;DR: cars could be way more aerodynamically efficient, but they aren’t, because people are peopleing.

      • @prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        65 months ago

        Why don’t you go to Cuba and ask how they’ve been able to do it for ~100 years. Those people have self-reliance down to a fucking science at this point, and the cars they have been keeping running for 60+ years are a perfect example of it. Imagine if they were actually allowed to participate in global commerce.

  • Tygr
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    415 months ago

    Well, crap! Was seriously looking at the CX50. I’m not paying monthly to use stuff that’s already equipped in the car. Just madness.

    • @QuarterSwede@lemmy.world
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      15 months ago

      The connectivity doesn’t work that well anyway. I don’t give a crap about remote start and climate control but my wife uses it when it’s super cold out and only at work. Not worth paying for at all, even from her POV. The car (CX-90 PHEV) is still fantastic to drive.

    • @homesnatch@lemm.ee
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      35 months ago

      Love the CX-50…

      I acknowledge the cell connectivity in the car costs Mazda money to keep running. Most cars with that kind of connectivity charge for it. But, I think 10/month is too much.

      • @dan@upvote.au
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        15 months ago

        I acknowledge the cell connectivity in the car costs Mazda money to keep running

        They should factor it into the price of the car. Maybe not a lifetime license, but some decent amount of time with a reasonable price to renew it for a few more years.

  • EleventhHour
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    185 months ago

    I give it another 10 years before car makers just fucking give up on fighting this kind of thing.

    It’s gonna be a rough 10 years though

      • EleventhHour
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        5 months ago

        Yes, capitalism is horrible bullshit that we all must suffer through (for now). No argument there.

        I mentioned this elsewhere, but I believe that within the next decade, car companies are just going to have to deal with the fact that a lot of very intelligent (and independent) software developers are able to work around their proprietary crap. Currently, they’re fighting it rather a lot, but that fight can only be sustained for so long before it becomes unprofitable for the corporations.

    • Evil_Opossum
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      15 months ago

      I really hope you’re right and wrong at the same time cause I don’t want to have to wait 10 years for them to realize this is such a stupid idea.

  • @Fizz@lemmy.nz
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    625 months ago

    Car manufacturers are being so blatant about this stuff. It goes to show that they know how slow regulation is and they can milk it for all its worth.

    • @Ydna@lemmy.world
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      75 months ago

      So true… for me personally, I’d love to have a battery EV vehicle, but i just want a regular vehicle with a battery powerplant. I don’t want a mobile IOT advertising surveillance DRM non-repairable planned-olsolescence mobile which is how so many new vehicles are designed.

    • @Zetta@mander.xyz
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      35 months ago

      I’m very excited for Apreras vehicles and hope they are successful. Their whole philosophy is hyper efficient vehicles and they are committed to open repair and bring consumer friendly.

      They seem to be the only company making cars or attempting to make cars that makes a point to say that they will make it as easy as possible for you to control, repair and fix your own vehicle.

  • @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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    185 months ago

    Damn, I wish I knew about this workaround before the takedown, I know someone who could benefit from it

    • @SeemsNormal@lemmy.world
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      75 months ago

      I use mine all the time. I have about a 1/4 mile walk to get to my car, I like to start it in winter to heat up, or summer to cool down before I get to it.

      It’s a luxury, but one I enjoy.

      • @desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        215 months ago

        Lora and other RF based communication protocols exist and are much better ideas than using the internet. If someone is starting their car they are probably less than a mile away and the benefits of having something that works regardless of cell towers probably outweigh the benefits of being able to use it through bunker doors and across the globe.

        • @frizop@lemmy.world
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          95 months ago

          add that an internet connected car is not something we want, we want our remotes which we already have to do this

        • @SeemsNormal@lemmy.world
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          15 months ago

          I’m not familiar with Lora or other RF systems. Can they adjust temperatures too?

          My other vehicle is from 1976… I love it and I love the ability for me to fix it without plugging a computer in.

          Walking a 1/4 mile in cold wind to a warm car that’s already defrosted is pretty amazing though. And I’m vehemently against subscriptions where possible, so I get the hatred towards connected cars as well.

          • @desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            25 months ago

            Lora is mostly intended for small packets of information (like sensors), temperature could be sent in base 1 and still be sendable over it.

    • @hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world
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      -245 months ago

      Nice for you to live somewhere mild enough your car doesn’t need to pre-heat but some people live in Chicago and other places where it still snows and pre-heating the car is a must 3 months of the year.

      • @guacupado@lemmy.world
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        65 months ago

        I promise you that there are plenty of people in Chicago without the ability to preheat their car and they’re surviving just fine lol

      • @captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        65 months ago

        As a Midwesterner, pre heating is a luxury. It’s often a nice and affordable one, but I park outside and just wear my coat in the car.

      • @boonhet@lemm.ee
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        105 months ago

        In truly cold weather, starting and idling your car doesn’t properly warm it up in any sane amount of time and can even be bad for the engine. What you want is an auxiliary heater like Webasto or Ebersprächer (sp?)

        Remote start would be nice with with mild weather or on a hot summer day when you need AC though.

      • @Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        265 months ago

        I live in a snowy climate and we did just fine before the invention of wireless starters. My car does not have one and we manage just fine.

        That is a great QoL, but let’s not pretend this is necessary.

        My main point is fuck subscription for every fucking thing to try and squeeze more money, even worst by removing features and putting them back behind a paywall.

        However, we need to stop saying that things are necessary when most of the time they are convenient.

        Because that is how they get us to pay. Every little inconvenience is treated as if it absolutely needs to be adressed.

        Then, we can say fuck off to these companies and live with the inconveniences they left on purpose to sell a subscription.

        But until, companies will push these hardware subscriptions because it nets them more money.

        • @boonhet@lemm.ee
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          25 months ago

          When I was like 20 or so and needed to drive every morning and it was -25C or colder outside, I’d go outside in my t-shirt, start the engine, remove the key (because the ignition lock was so worn, I could remove it), lock the car, go back inside

          Woke me right up and afterwards when I went outside with proper winter clothing, I didn’t feel the least bit cold. Plus the car had a nice big gasoline V6 as opposed to the diesels I mostly drive nowadays, so it actually did manage to defrost the windshield in <10 minutes no problem.

        • @octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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          105 months ago

          I live in a snowy climate and we did just fine before the invention of wireless starters. My car does not have one and we manage just fine.

          That is a great QoL, but let’s not pretend this is necessary.

          Yes, but we have had remote start without the internet for decades. It’s nothing but a cash grab. That’s what people are upset about here I think.

          They took a feature that did not require the internet, then made it require the internet, for literally no purpose except:

          But until, companies will push these hardware subscriptions because it nets them more money.

          It’s one thing to withhold a feature. It’s another thing to overcomplicate a feature for the purpose of withholding it.

          • @Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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            45 months ago

            I agree with you all the way. But we can kick and scream all we want, but if enough people buy the subscription, car manufacturers will keep hiding features behind paywalls.

      • ExFed
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        205 months ago

        …in Chicago … pre-heating the car is a must 3 months of the year.

        I don’t believe you’ve lived anywhere cold for very long. Cold places existed long before remote start. The car warms up while you finish shoveling and brushing off the car. You’re warm from shoveling, and the car is ready to go. If it’s just cold and you’re late to whatever, you sit your shivering ass down behind the wheel and drive away anyways…

        • @bluewing@lemm.ee
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          65 months ago

          The issue isn’t “I don’t want to be cold.” The problem is when it’s below 20F/-7C, you need to wait long enough for the coolant to warm enough to evaporate the moisture in the defrost vents and the inside of the windshield. Otherwise the inside of the windshield frosts over and you can’t see well enough to drive safely. And the colder it gets, the longer it takes.

          Do you need remote start? Nope. I don’t have it on my vehicles. But you will need to wait long enough to keep the windshield defrosted.

          • @dan@upvote.au
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            35 months ago

            Remote start is a fine feature. It just shouldn’t need internet access.

          • ExFed
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            35 months ago

            …coolant to warm enough to evaporate the moisture…

            Where I come from, we just scrape off enough ice to see where you’re going, and crack a window to keep it dry enough the interior doesn’t freeze. But, hey, if you know how to leave early enough to get to places on time in a warm cabin, more power to you 😉

    • @the_tab_key@lemmy.world
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      245 months ago

      I just bought a new car and it has internet enabled remote start. The salesman touted the feature. My response: “oh so I can start the car in [one state] while I’m in [another state] so it’s ready for me when I get back?” He didn’t have a good response for that. Nice car, dumbass feature.

    • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      -55 months ago

      Some people live in these tall things that are called, “not a single family house” and so starting the car from up there you would need some way to communicate to the car, keyfob ranges are limited.

      • @Soggy@lemmy.world
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        105 months ago

        It’s a good thing we invented remote start at the same time as the car itself, I can’t imagine the horror of only operating a motor vehicle I’m next to (let alone touching)

          • @Soggy@lemmy.world
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            85 months ago

            Remote start of any kind is a luxury and it’s wild to me that someone would defend internet car controls as any way important or even desirable. That’s what I’m talking about. Physical keys work totally fine and add like two seconds of time to the process.

            • @Squirrelanna@lemmynsfw.com
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              35 months ago

              Not when your door is frozen shut. I wrote another comment detailing my personal struggle as a second shift worker during the polar vortex in -40 degree weather. The guideline was five minutes before you began to risk serious damage, and that was about the length of my walk through the lot. Have you tried opening a car frozen shut by a literal sheet of ice while standing on another sheet of ice while your joints are already starting to stiffen from the cold despite the layers of winter clothing you’re wearing? Remote start stopped being a luxury for me when the Midwest winters started getting deadly cold.

            • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Remote start of any kind is a luxury

              Who said it was not?

              Physical keys work totally fine and add like two seconds of time to the process.

              YOu know except for the fucking case I described where you don’t live in a house so the keyfob might not reach so you need some other way to connect to the car to be able to remote start it.

              it’s wild to me that someone would defend internet car controls as any way important or even desirable.

              not my fault you struggle with social skills and can’t relate to other people

              • @Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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                75 months ago

                I mean, his point is still valid. Take the 2-3 mins it takes to go down and start the car.

                We managed before so let’s not pretend that wireless fob are necessary.

                • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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                  -45 months ago

                  And then what genius? Should I sit in the cold car or stand next to the cold car while it heats up?

                  The point of the remote start is to avoid this, are you all some brain damaged kind that doesn’t understand user experience?

                • @Squirrelanna@lemmynsfw.com
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                  15 months ago

                  Counterpoint: During the polar vortex everyone was told that staying outside in the -40 or lower temperatures for more than five minutes risked frost bite. I worked 2nd shift so I was getting out dead of night at the coldest time, walking to the back of the lot to a car covered in a sheet of ice that simply did not allow me to even open the door to physically start it. That’s a 4-5 minute walk already to a car that I can’t open, who knows how long to chip away ice I can’t see, sometimes can’t even reach leading to struggling with the door using brute force trying to get leverage standing on icy pavement just to FINALLY enter my car, which is still -40 inside.

                  Or I could have had remote start and skipped the potentially lost fingers. Thank goodness I had coworkers who started staying behind to help those that didn’t.

        • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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          85 months ago

          In the winter I would, yes, if my car had it, sitting into a cold car in the morning fucking sucks, starting it 10 minutes before take off and have it defrost, and turn on seat/steering wheel heating would be the fucking tits, and I don’t live in a house so might not even have a line of sight on my car so keyfob wouldn’t be enough

      • @dan@upvote.au
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        65 months ago

        Why should that use the internet though? There’s low-power wireless communication technologies like Wifi HaLow that have a range of around 1km (0.6 miles), which would be totally fine for this use case. No internet needed.

        • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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          -15 months ago

          Is that ubiquitous and does it go through walls? And what’s the cost of that compared to existing solutions?

          • @dan@upvote.au
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            35 months ago

            HaLow is sub-1Ghz so it goes through walls pretty well. Not sure about cost or how widespread it is yet.

  • sunzu2
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    465 months ago

    Imagine a world where the laws are literally used to opress you!

    Now open your eyes.