- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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The MBA dickheads took Microsoft over years ago. Engineers used to have some input on features and design, but those days are long gone. I know the term enshittification has been overused, but it applies double to Microsoft.
Tools like ShutUp10 (which works on Windows 11) are the only reason I can bear to use their bloated horrible OS for my job.
Office 365 pissed me off so much I only use LibreOffice now (and it’s excellent).
We should all be using Linux, but some folks (like me) are trapped for now.
ShutUp10 and WinAeroTweaker are the GOATS.
winaero was a game changer, what is ShutUp10?
Fuck Libre Office and Open Office.
I really hate the, “we should all use Linux” mentality and I see it on here a lot. Let me tell someone who barely knows how to send a fucking file over the internet how to fix their broken repository that decided to randomly break during an Linux upgrade.
Linux and Windows do different things in different ways that make sense in both ways for different reasons. Not everyone should hate Windows or vice versa, Linux, because this entire Lemmy community thinks it is superior in every way.
I get pissed off by office as well but you know what it has some pretty damn good features. It works in the cloud it’s easy to sync across my decides.
Windows updates break things but at least MS and Windows has a massive catalogue of fixes and ways to go back.
I love Linux but holy mother of fucking God it is an absolute pain in the ass to fix when it breaks and you expect me to tell my Mom to understand that.
No, we should not all be using Linux because Linux does not work for all models needing to be met. I hate to be that aggressive asshole but Jesus Christ I keep seeing this on Lemmy and it’s just a god damn stupid fucking statement. Oh and for fucks sake. If I see, “what kind of Linux system are you using that breaks.” Dammit, I have literally seen Linux break in the middle of a college classroom demonstration of just installing it and wouldn’t you know it just like Windows it isn’t perfect. Get off your high horse people. You don’t know something more than the average person because you use Linux or Windows or hell even Unix.
Your mom would do just fine on Mint, and you know it.
I’m not gonna comment on the Linux portion because you seem quite passionate, but both Libre Office and Open Office are cross platform apps. So they’ll work just fine with your OneDrive / Dropbox / Backblaze / whatever to give you the wonderful fully cloud synced experience on either Windows or Linux.
People who “barely knows how to send a fucking file over the internet” can’t fix shit on Windows either. I spent a lot more time fixing my mom’s Windows install than her Ubuntu.
I spent a lot more time fixing my mom’s Windows install than her Ubuntu.
Small anecdote, roughly in the same line as yours:
As W7 was close to end of life, I asked my mum about it, as her laptop used W7. And after highlighting the privacy nightmare that W10 became, she decided to try Linux out. So I installed Mint in her machine. At the start she asked for help often, but the amount of “pls help” decreased over time. The last time that she asked for help was because she wanted to access “her computer” from her phone, just like I do with mine. (i.e. local network.)
My neighbours though? I often get some spare change from them, by helping them out with their Windows machines. And they’re in the same level of tech expertise as my mum, you know, those folks who can download and install a program and not much else.
So I believe that it reached a point where, in certain aspects, Linux is actually easier to use and maintain than Windows. Linux is still full of rough corners, unintuitive design and stupid shit, but at least it doesn’t get on your way on purpose because it benefits some business out there.
Linux Mint really impressed me when I decided to try it in a VM earlier this year (was already using fedora in VMs for build environments on a Windows company machine). It installs quickly, runs smoothly, and the updates have been painless.
I like having a terminal open constantly, and learning about technical workings and power user features I may not have known about. However, for non-techie "email and web browsing” use, I would put it in front of my parents no problem. Right out of the box it even looks a bit like windows (cinnamon version, didn’t try others). It even has an “app store” like experience with the software package manager.
If a power user has trouble because they’re used to configuring windows, they can probably learn how to do those settings on a user-friendly Linux distro.
That does not mean it would work for everybody, and that does not mean it won’t break in frustrating ways. It was programmed by humans, after all.
Linux is just the kernel and infinitely superior to anything Microsoft has ever produced by itself. Stability and usability issues arise from the distribution that is being used, there are many that are tailored for the average consumer and that are just as simple to use as Windows. People like to forget it, but Android also uses the Linux kernel and is the most successful operating system in the world, with the amount of installed instances dwarfing the amount of Microsoft Windows installations.
Chrome/Linux is very easy to use too. Easier than Windows.
On Lemmy I see people raving about Linux all the time like it’s the second coming of jesus it’s so annoying. Really fits the stereotype of Linux users always letting you know they use Linux
The new vegans
Windows randomly decided to break for me many more times than Ubuntu did for my parents. Every time a sudden new update is pushed on the background, stalling anything I would be doing to a halt, it’s a roll of the dice if it will still function properly when it’s done.
Sure, and how easy was it to fix those issues?
Usually it is nothing more than either reversing an update or waiting for the next update in Windows.
While in Linux you’d have to re-import the correct repositories through command line and it might still not work, explain that to your parents.
Poke about in registry, Google problems where the solutions are for the wrong version of windows, wade through driver problems, find that the issue is in a toggle that used to be easy to find in control panel but now is buried under layers of crap
Usually it is nothing more than either reversing an update or waiting for the next update in Windows.
…Waiting with a non-functional computer until the next update?.. Really?..
While in Linux you’d have to re-import the correct repositories through command line and it might still not work, explain that to your parents.
Why would a non-technical person ever need to use 3rd-party repos? Besides that, “reimporting” a repo is just adding 3-5 lines of text to a file, which can be done via gEdit, or, in most cases, through the settings in a distro’s package manager UI.
How easy? Not at all. I’ve had to format the whole computer several times that reversing updates failed. At which point using Linux wouldn’t have been any harder.
Yep… Moving to Lemmy it’s quite surprising how much of an echo chamber the Linux group has on here.
It’s a good OS, but being honest Windows is likely better for almost everyone as it’s a lot simpler to understand with good support. Don’t have to worry about comparability as much or other things either.
It’s such an echo chamber that you’ve gotten a number of downvotes just for providing your perspective here
Honestly, I’ve noticed that really only select communities really ever moved from reddit to Lemmy and it’s full of people who are sucking their own dick on superiority complex.
A lot of this stuff (Linux requiring command line and root knowledge and Lemmy needing multiple instances to shuffle through) is just absolutely going to keep people, that I struggle to explain a URL to, from using any of this stuff.
I get that they like the privacy and the control and all that of this but telling people to just get good and use this stuff is like a basketball star being confused when you say you struggle to get a point because you should just run up and dunk it. Missing some steps and skills.
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Yeah … No. Ubuntu is way more stable for me than win10. And much lazier to use. This argument was true ten years ago but Ubuntu and friends are really just install and click browser just like most people use Chromebooks
What broken repository yiu talking about? My mum used Linux for over 10 years and she never saw Windows in her life. Email, YouTube, eBay… Never a problem. I can’t even imagine leaving her with Windows.
Open office and libre office are bad because you don’t like linux?
Who hurt you, Arch Linux?
I just recently updated shutup10 because of another annoyance of windows and was surprised that it didn’t solve my problem right away. Even with shutup10 it’s barely bearable.
I don’t use either if those and I’m not having this “barely bearable” experience. What do you guys see that is bothering you so much? I don’t get any ads or crap installed when I setup a new PC. Is it because I’m using Win Enterprise?
Same experience as I. For now W11 has been smooth sailing. Sure I like using my Linux notebook more for coding and such, but W11 is not the devil people describe IMO
if I didn’t work in IT and I didn’t play certain video games and I didn’t need certain recording software I would be 100% Linux it kind of pisses me off that I can’t be 100%.
That was a whole lot of “If I didn’t just” statements xD
Still, VMs and containers and such. Could still do it if you wanted.
Proton is revolutionary but it still isn’t a solution for every game. And that’s not even getting into the lack of support Nvidia gives to anything Linux.
I mean I’ve yet to come across a game that is unsupported on my Steam Deck. For all intents and purposes, gaming on Linux is the real deal.
The main issue comes when the game is using proprietary stuff. Like I found getting Kingdom Hearts to run at all was a pain in the arse because of it using a proprietary codec for it’s cutscenes.
I also found Hand of Fate 2 had some weird rendering issues with certain graphics settings.
And if you want to do Ray tracing or HDR you’re currently out of luck.
Me too, friend. Me too. Very similar situation.
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Your work sounds like it has no IT Security department and no HR department
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Carl?!
Lucky you. I got told by our IT that I’m going to be their windows 11 sacrificial lamb and will be getting it before everyone else to bang out the quirks. It doesn’t pay to be known as the office nerd :(
My elderly father’s win 10 computer has been absolutely shoving the upgrade down his throat, and I’m about ready to give in and just do it. Telling it to stop notifying him does no good, it just comes right back the next day. Then he won’t touch the computer because the full screen upgrade ad freaks him out and he’s afraid something is wrong. Screw Microsoft.
Switched my nearly 70yo mother to Mint and she’s actually pretty happy with it. If she can do it, anybody can
He’s a good bit older than that and has cancer, and is not able to sit at a computer long enough to learn a new operating system even if he wanted to. Which he really, really doesn’t lol. He hates the thing with the fire of a thousand burning suns and only used it for his necessaries.
I’m also not familiar with any other operating system besides windows, outside of a brief foray into pi-hole years ago that I don’t remember much about, so I’d have to learn it first. While I’d love to start playing around with Linux some day, unfortunately that day isn’t going to be any time soon.
I mean…who are you kidding, you probably will.
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I refuse to update my laptop
Is it your laptop, or is it their laptop? If it’s yours, you have every right to request that they issue a corporate laptop if they need you to use Windows 11 to do your job. Otherwise, it’s time to grow up - it’s not like they’re forcing you to commit an OSHA violation.
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ah yes windows 11 did that XD
windows 7 started shipping with an universal backdoor like wtf are we talking about
Can you elaborate on the Windows 7 elaborate backdoor?
its not that elaborate and its no secret
You’re being vague. Sounds like bullshit.
Its like I’m being vague about the color of the sky… look it up will ya?
This is one of the best tools I’ve used, works really well!
I just reinstalled Windows after not having a computer for a long time. I’m glad I just happened across this beforehand because it was the best.
Everyone should use this to some extent, even just to disable tracking
It’s awesome right?? Really impressed with the tool!
Anyone got a spare Linux CD key?
Unironically I might for Lindows
I had not heard of Lindows. What a crazy world. Thanks for mentioning it.
My first introduction to Lindows was as a teenager in an internet cafe circa 2005. It was quite the novelty back then and we all got a good laugh out of it.
Yep, here you go: []
Thank you, now I’ve sucessfully activated GNU+Linux Mint.
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just use Ventoy.
My laptop upgraded to Windows 11. It broke the headphone jack and built in speakers. The computer just doesn’t detect them anymore. O_o
I’ve had this happen too, multiple times. It’s a pain in the ass to fix, and I have no idea where to start. I know you can force block driver updates for your speakers through windows update somewhere, that prevents this thing from happening again.
Windows 11 would CONSTANTLY turn off my headphones microphone at a hardware level. Running the “recording audio” troubleshooter was the only way to fix. Probably the only thing that windows troubleshooter fixed for me in 25 years.
Linux Mint worked out the box never going back. Feel bad for people who need Adobe.
I remember when I first installed Linux. I thought it was broken because it was so clean and distraction free.
I thought it was broken when I told it to poweroff and suddenly it just died. Nope, apparently that’s just how linux normally shuts down.
Been using Windows since XP, watched it get worse with every iteration while getting a shiny new exterior. Was finally forced from Windows 7 to Windows 10 a few years ago and the day Windows tries to foist 11 on me is the day I go fully down the Linux rabbit hole.
If your machine is capable of running windows 7 (properly) it’s not capable of running Windows 11.
I’ve used Windows since 3.1. I thought XP was such a great advancement. I feel like 7 is overall better than XP, but not an all out improvement. 10 is worse than 7, but they’re forcing 7 out. I hate 11. I want to by a new PC, and 11 is the biggest thing holding me back. Could I buy it and install something else? Sure, but I don’t want to pay for this terrible program.
System76 can sell you a computer with PopOS or Ubuntu installed straight from the factory!
I looked into this and didn’t find quite what I wanted, but it did lead me into a whole world of small computer assemblers I didn’t know about.
Getting “professional” versions and installing them has generally been the way to work around Windows bullshit. I haven’t gone to 11 yet, and the vibe I get from folks is that there is no escaping it. But folks have been saying that about Windows forever.
I have used professional versions of 10 through work, and they are better, but they still have a bunch of junk. I hear that Windows 11 is worse in this regard. It also still doesn’t fix the problem of encouraging MS to do these things. I’m not looking to build a PC, so I’d be buying something that comes preloaded with a consumer version, then need to buy a pro version, and now I’ve bought this crap twice, greatly rewarding MS for their poor practices.
What’s annoying to me isn’t even a Microsoft product. Norton sends pop up’s and reminders every day by default after you purchase it and it drives me crazy.
The enshittification started at Win 8 and has picked up speed.
People don’t like to believe it but this shit started back in 95/98 or even earlier. It’s kinda what Microsoft has always done.
Man I don’t miss Windows. Gaming, work, etc. all done on Linux here. I don’t even use my dual boot anymore. Haven’t for months. Probably need to just fully nuke my Windows drive and make it more storage for games.
I can’t upvote you hard enough. I built a new machine in April when it was finally time to get off of Windows 7. I thought I’d try gaming on Linux since I heard it got so much better. Holy shit has it gotten better! In the last 5ish months I’ve only found one game I couldn’t get to run and it was a demo. Starcraft 2, the new System Shock, pretty much everything I throw at it has been great. There’s never been a better time to not have a Windows partition!
Same, built a PC this year, Intel CPU and Radeon GPU. “Dual boot” with win10 for gaming but after booting back and forth a couple times to test performance it just stays in Linux 24/7. At least I did a big NTFS partition with my Steam library on it (Proton emulated games will run on both!), so it’s not like I’m out a ton of HDD space for the unused Windows system.
at home, linux.
at work, linux.
what a wonderful world.
Yeah, take the plunge! I never liked dual boot and even though I liked Linux since the late 90’s I never committed to it on my desktop due to it being mainly a gaming system. When Proton came around I dumped Windows and never regretted it :-). Especially after reading this article I’m happy I don’t have to deal with that crap!
If only my work supported Linux - Siemens TIA Portal, Rockwel Studio 5000, Mitsubishi RSWorks3 - they’re already struggling with Window$ updates, impossible to run on anything else.
Could those be run in a VM or a vApp deployment to avoid Windows Updates breaking them?
I ended my dual boot around Win XP days. I only saw the Win 8 horror in store displays, and I only installed Win11 one time. OMG it sucked - the hell was MS doing demanding I sign up a ms account to install an OS?
Dam you solitaire.
The last version of Windows I used (and loved) was Windows 2000. It was rock solid and came with nothing but the basics. The install ISO was only 300 MB. 500 MB after service packs were merged. Almost pefect.
(Mostly) mandatory Microsoft account sign-in.
- yea you can just create a local account lol.
Setup screen asking you about data collection and telemetry settings.
- so just like some current Linux GUIs and installs that also ask this. Same with MacOS
A (skippable) screen asking you to “customize your experience.”
- just press skip like any other OS that asks.
A prompt to pair your phone with your PC.
- also skipable, and isnt even asked on a local account setup.
IDK man win11 is pretty simple to “debloat” and most of the shit in this article that they complain about is common on multiple Linux, Apple, android, etc. setup/install processes.
Win11 is dogshit for a variety of reasons, like the shitty new start menu formatting/lay out. The god awful menu nesting. The laggy audio panel. The list goes on.
If we’re gonna be nitpicking an OS. Atleast nitpick shit that actually impacts operation and isnt also common on many OS’
Edit: alright some of you keep spinning this as me defending dog shit windows 11… i never did nor did i state it was a good OS. Bunch of over zealous wierdos.
Meh, imo windows just feels significantly worse. I setup a Linux desktop and there’s literally just a pop up that gives me a bunch of links which I can just close on first boot. When I was setting up a windows laptop last month it kept hammering me with that fullscreen “HELLO” thing that can’t be dismissed quickly. This is especially annoying given the number of times a fresh windows install needs to be rebooted while installing new software and drivers. Then there’s the bing/edge spam, and the ads in the start bar, and the in OS prompts to sign up for one drive and office…it feels like using an ad supported kindle except it isn’t any cheaper.
Yep i agree. That is why i prefer using Linux distros as my general use OSs.
Was just mainly pointing out the articles fallacies in their reasoning from the section i specifically quoted.
It’s actually harder to fully debloat than you might think. The truth is that stuff is there, it’s just hiding where you don’t go. Windows also reinstalls a lot of things during updates, including games and apps that you may not use.
I guess the question is, if it’s not actively bothering you, is it really a problem?
Depends on user competencies with computers. It really isn’t difficult to full remove. Its even easier to disable like you mentioned, and for most common users, out of site out of mind is a fine option.
Now i do think having to do so is dogshit and should not have to be the case. I’m just saying what i specifically quoted from the article, are not fully true.
Creating a local account on a clean install of Windows 11 currently requires disconnecting ethernet during setup, a secret keyboard shortcut to open a command prompt, and entering a special command. I’ll be surprised if this workaround doesn’t go away in the near future, too.
Yep exactly what i stated, you can create local accounts. It’s dumb you have to do the work around, i agree with that.
This is not true. Some Linux guis and installs also ask the 15 questions Microsoft asks about data collection? What Linux is that?
There is a world of difference here… You can’t have used Linux nearly at all.
They ask about both diagnostic and telemetry options. Ubuntu 22.04. Default GUI prompts this during account fist login. Rocky 8 with default GUI asks this on initial user account login. Those are just the two i used over this past weekend.
At no point did i say it was the 20 questions that windows tosses at you. I purley stated it still happens.
So you can suck my dick with your shitty attitude trying to discredit me and my statement by misinterpretation and spinning what i said into your own dog shit interpretation.
You seem salty
He says in a thread full of people complaining about the most popular OS available.
Well of course. Some bozo said i lied, then miss-quoted me, then tried to discredit me based off their own made up bullshit.
Sorry for standing up for myself i guess haha?
I wonder if there are any Linux distros that include ads built into their core apps and menus. Windows does. But hey, we can disable them with some obscure combination of powershell commands and registry edits… temporarily. Should we really have to put up with that kind of crapware in software that we’ve paid for?
You’re kidding yourself if you think Windows hasn’t gotten worse in this regard. And Microsoft is carefully probing exactly how much their users will tolerate - because more ads mean more money. Annoying users is only an issue if the users actually leave. So this gentle gradual slide of enshitification is very deliberate and calibrated. People are pushed to the very edge of what they’ll tolerate. If you continue to tolerate it, you’ll likely be pushed a little bit further soon enough.
I agree its a load of garbage. But that wasn’t the point of my statement vs. the directly quoted protion of the article i was referencing and reaponding to. The article list those issues as defaco issues, which they are solveable as i stated and was pointing out. Which occur in other OSs. Not to the extent of the garbage of windows 11.
Nothing i stated is untrue. You took the meaning and spun the context of my statement and spun it into me defending microsoft and windows11. Which i never did once.
I didn’t intend to misrepresent what you were saying. I really did take your post as defending Microsoft by minimising the faults.
The list of issues was never meant to be an exhaustive list. They were just examples. You talked about how those examples can be worked around, and I took that to mean you didn’t acknowledge the core problem - so I gave a different example and tried to express the point that although work-arounds might exist, we just shouldn’t have to deal with that.
In any case, maybe we misunderstood each other. No big deal. Lets just leave it as that.
The audio panel is definitely an issue, but Ear Trumpet solves it. I know relying on a third party solution for a system function isn’t ideal, but Ear Trumpet is too good.
Idk, I like the new start menu, especially once they added folders to it. I rarely need to see everything in my start menu and having my most used stuff right up front is nice. The only thing I wish is that I could completely get rid of recently used files on the bottom half.
If the menu nesting is referring to what you get when you right-click something, then yes. That can die in a fire. I don’t know who thought that was a good idea, and it’s wild because many people thought it was. Something like that doesn’t make it to production before passing teams of people.
I think we’re starting to see the beginning of the end of the Windows hegemony, for one reason: the success of the Steam Deck has made gaming on Linux mainstream. The two things that have always kept power users tied to Windows have been games and office, but GAMES were the big one. Suddenly, it starts to look like it might be possible to do without Windows for gaming, if not now, then soon.
games is certainly a big appeal and will bring a lot of people over and has already frankly, but there’s still a lot of device driver issues with consumer hardware and professional level hardware that is a barrier for a lot of people
and general Windows applications that just don’t fly in Linux I guess
I’m still on Win10 but I just can’t see myself moving to win11, it’s ugly and I hate if. If I need to get a new OS in the foreseeable future it’s gonna be Linux.
