Appears to be Hetzner for now, wouldn’t be surprised if all VPS get affected eventually.
I never understood this, it’s your selfhosted server but you kind of don’t own it and depend on them, so you just have an application which depends on a their service which means plex isn’t 100% selfhostable, correct?
The problem is that they want to route control through their own servers for making sure you can’t use some of the extra features without paying.
A few years back they dropped some clients (including the one for my old TV) because they were dropping support for legacy SSL ciphers on their servers - and those devices didn’t have support for the new ciphers. This is a pretty stupid dependency due to the way they want to do things - so I moved to jellyfin back then, and have been encouraging people to drop plex ever since.
To be fair, old ssl isn’t really ssl at all & considered to be a vulnerability by a lot of libraries.
Without them forcing you to go through their server for user authentication it’d be a thing local to your network - where it wouldn’t really matter. Without that stupid requirement you also could just keep unsupported clients running by yourself.
But can’t you already. Just allow unencrypted clients?
But also on the other side, we’re talking about just media consumption, not banking or other sensitive data
Yeah, I agree, and ultimately shame on the tv manufacturer. However many software just won’t connect so it’s not really a plex issue. If they use a library that won’t support it…
A few years back they dropped some clients (including the one for my old TV) because they were dropping support for legacy SSL ciphers on their servers
TLS 1.0/1.1? Those were deprecated and dropped by the IETF with RFC 8996. You can’t even get a certificate using 1.0/1.1 anymore unless you are self-signing.
You can also allow unauthenticated users on certain networks, usually limited to your local nets. But I do agree that doesn’t solve the problem. I’d love to allow users to optionally use local authentication with, eg, Authelia, something built in, or an LDAP backend.
Plex has been hostile towards self-hosting since the very beginning. They have been asked to add local authentication for more than 10 years.
Yup, as soon as they started the mandatory login bullshit, I bounced. Companies keep adding this “feature” as a way to control your stuff: Doom on Switch, Halo Master Chief edition, nvidia, my fucking mouse(!?); all need a login for no other reason than to add a point of failure/killswitch.
Same here. When my Internet is out, my household needs to still be able to watch shows from my NAS locally without having to jump through hoops. Plex wouldn’t let me just do that anymore.
Moving to Emby has had its own small issues, but with the internet out the family can still just load the TV app and watch a show like normal. They don’t need to know how to do any troubleshooting, alternate login options, etc.
On one hand I hate that legit users are punished for the actions of few cunts selling massive plex libraries and using Hetzner because of cheap storage and unlimited transfer, but I sort of understand that plex doesn’t want to be associated with piracy (lol).
On the other, fuck Plex. Seems trivial to detect these massive libraries with hundreds of “friends” and just shut those down. Seems insane to block a whole fucking provider over this. I’ve been a paid subscriber since day one and then bought a lifetime pass, but this dumb move is making me consider other products.
But on third hand, I don’t really care because I use tailscale so I almost never use the plex’s proxy anyway.
ITT: People who don’t use Plex proudly talking about how they don’t use Plex.
This move makes sense to me. They could be liable for what’s hosted in the cloud, and on top of that you can’t pay for access, and the host is known as a great place to let people do that.
I really don’t understand the people who use jellyfin but insist on shitting on Plex. You can both use jellyfin and not also not be smug about it. It’s the same reason people are tired of the Linux user or back in the day why android users were so annoying.
Agreed. They’re trying to kill off Plex Shares, where people are essentially using their software to run their own for-profit streaming service using pirated content. This shit affects all of us as it brings on lawsuits and new laws to combat just so some random dude can make some extra cash selling access.
They could be liable for what’s hosted in the cloud
Liable for something hosted on someone’s private VPS? That’s like saying Apache or Nginx is liable if someone uses it to host a torrent site. I don’t really buy it tbh.
I really don’t understand the people who use jellyfin but insist on shitting on Plex.
I think people are allowed to critique and express disappointment over a product that they paid for. Just because you personally don’t care about the direction of Plex doesn’t mean other users can’t express their valid viewpoints. Plex at one point said they didn’t really care what people put up on their private servers and now they’re dialing that back and essentially asserting control over what people already paid for. People are right to be upset.
That’s like saying Apache or Nginx is liable if someone uses it to host a torrent site. I don’t really buy it tbh.
Tell that to your company’s team of lawyers who are telling you just to take it down. Even if it’s a grey area legal will tell you just to be proactive and avoid the whole thing. Plus like I said, charging for access is against ToS anyway, and most hosters who do that use this cloud service. Few bad apples spoil the bunch as they say.
and I’m cool with valid viewpoints, but god is everyone in this thread saying the same lazy thing. “Plex is trash, I dumped it, get Jellyfin”. Like okay, I get it, can we not have 98% of the thread talking about Plex just saying “It’s trash”. At least some of them have valid criticism you’re talking about, and I’m all for that, but I’m just over the pure vomit that most of these comments are. You’re criticism is valid and makes sense, the lazy comments just saying “lol I switched to Jellyfin” are just annoying to me. Great, high five to you.
Don’t say, someone else’s opinions /comments are annoying to you?
I suppose the correct solution is to ask everyone else to not post what annoys you, right?
I think the point was, if you’re not actively adding to the discussion, and instead are just giving the whole"kek, I use jellyfin", then rather stfu, it’s already been said 100x in the comments.
That’s a nonsense point.
You are assuming that everyone reading the topic knows everything you do. People don’t.
The very reason I am using Jellyfin is because in some Plex thread on reddit, months ago, random people said something along the lines of “Lol, you should have used Jellyfin”.
I knew that Plex was (although I did not use it myself) so I went to see what Jellyfin is. Once I saw what it does (amazingly well) and how simple it is to setup, I set it up. I am an old fart, I don’t have time to follow everything anymore so I truly did not know about Jellyfin.
And that’s the story of how I found out about Jellyfin. By someone loling in the tread about Plex.
But hey, everyone should just do what the guy upstairs want, so he doesn’t get upset.
It is reasonable.
Okay, so how many times does it need to be said in one place? I’m counting 60 here right now… I’m pretty sure after the first 10 comments you’d have picked up on it.
switched to Jellyfin, took about 10 minutes to have it up and running. Cya Plex
AFAICT for self hosted only Plex works with smart TVs.
Jellyfin has apps for Firestick, Roku, Android TV etc - they’re listed on their website. There are also some third-party ones.
And if your smart tv has some kind of browser, that works too
Was curious before about setting it up on a Samsung TV, apparently can sideload an app or something? Didn’t look too far into it because Plex ‘just worked’. Will have to revisit that.
Google TV.
Your “smart” tv never needs to touch the internet. They’re usually going some sort of spying anyways.
They’re usually going some sort of spying anyways.
You say that as if the Google TV systems don’t do that…
There’s definitely more Plex apps but I’d suggest just getting a third party streamer if your TV doesn’t have a Jellyfin app (which suggests it’s probably quite out of date and probably not the best option).
deleted by creator
Good thing I didn’t get a lifetime pass back when it was on sale, was kind of tempting a couple years ago
I understand what you’re saying here, but I want to let you know that it just sounds like “sour grapes”.
It sounds like this provider is allowing something that could put Plex in legal hot water; why would they allow this and potentially jeopardize everything for all Plex users?
A lot of people self host so they are in control. This is Plex taking away that control, plain and simple.
I don’t know how many people host completely legitimately acquired content in their libraries, but your reasoning is such a cop out. Are you gonna defend them if they start scanning libraries for potentially illegally obtained content and blocking that because it could “put them in legal hot water?”
I’m not here to argue & you’ve got some good points. I am defending no one; this isn’t a situation where I’m in the “hail corporate” camp.
The minute Plex started taking money back in 2012, anyone who thought Plex was still creating this product+service out of the goodness of their hearts has been missing the point. The writing has been on the wall for 10+ years.
Am not even surprised, Plex went to the gutter long ago when someone gave them the brilliant idea to start a media company on software used by pirates.
I had to move to cloud cause energy prices. Using plex just to having easy access to my music collection. Now need to find good alternative for plexamp.
This is truly the biggest bummer since Plexamp is a really nice audio player.
Other alternative that is usable I found is Roon. Though it has big flaw. No desktop app for Linux :(
Yuck. I have to prop up a server and pay a monthly fee? They’re not doing that much for me.
Finamp. Literally the same thing but for jellyfin :)
Not even close. Where is the Android auto support?
This would be viable for users who don’t use smart/programmable/dynamic playlists, and the various features backed by a track analysis ML model in plexamp
Finamp with Jellyfin works, or you could look into a pure audio streaming service like Airsonic or Navidrome. They both work with Subsonic ecosystem apps like dSub on android. There’s also Audiobookshelf for audio books.
Forget their reasoning, the fact that they can block access at all should be reason enough for anyone to abandon them. Glad I abandoned my lifetime membership years ago.
This seems kinda scummy. If someone breaks TOS then ban the one account. I’ve seen for years now people bringing up jellyfin, knew it was coming when I saw this headline. I never tried it because I have iOS devices and an Apple TV, but now I see there are 3rd party apps for jellyfin on iOS/tvos. I may try it out, move if it satisfies my needs.
The one thing keeping me off Jellyfin is the fact that Infuse for Apple TV doesn’t have great support for it yet. Infuse is by far the most capable media player on the device, and it has excellent integration with Plex.
Air Video HD and its server software was so smooth. I’ve begged for it to return, but I am only able to use it still because I own old licenses.
It runs great on M1/M2 macOS, iPad, iPhone, and Apple TV. Streams all my content without issue every time.
Infuse is… alright, but it lacks the ability to adjust some things, and I really wish it had a more “list mode” style, and easier setup. I am getting more used to it, but I only use it for some files, where AirVideoHD and VLC play everything.
Who is going to to revive Air Video HD??
I recommend infuse over swiftfin. Swiftfin is FOSS, so it has that going for it, but Infuse works better right now.
Heavily agree, a lot of content had issues playing for me with swiftfin. No issues at all with Infuse other than the fact that intro skipper doesn’t work with it
Been using Jellyfin for about a year, love it. I watch movies and TV shows with my spouse, and listen to my music collection on the go with Finamp.
Works great on desktop Linux, GrapheneOS, and my Steam Deck.
Swiftfin isn’t perfect, but Is pretty good on AppleTV.
Jellyfin is awesome
The thing that keeps me from switching to other systems like Jellyfin is that none of them have a music app as good as Plexamp.
I also don’t think their Live TV features are as good. I have a TV antenna and a HDHomeRun and record shows using it.
Have you tried Finamp? Haven’t used it much myself so I don’t have an opinion on that
Haven’t tried Finamp. I did try Jellyamp but it was abandoned and is missing many features.
There’s a lot of unique features in Plexamp that I haven’t seen in other media players.
Probably the most unique is that it does AI analysis of your music (directly on your Plex server, not “in the cloud”) and uses this data for things like suggesting songs that “sound similar” to the one you’re listening to.
It’s got an auto DJ setting that automatically inserts other songs between songs in your playlist, based on some criteria - there’s a few options. It can use the AI analysis data for this.
It has dynamic fades between songs based on volume - if a song is quiet at the end, the fade in to the next song will start sooner. When playing an album in order, it automatically disables the fades and instead uses gapless playback.
It lets you download playlists for listening offline. New songs you add to the playlist will be automatically downloaded.
They also recently made the basic features free for everyone - previously you could only use Plexamp if you had a Plex Pass.
All in all, it’s a really solid media player, available for most platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android and iOS)
I wonder if you can get around this by using cloudflare proxy for a domain and then in the settings for the server disabling remote access and only allowing discovery through your domain? I’m not with Hetzner but I’ll give this setup a try and see how it goes.
Never even heard of Hertzner, but I’m super curious about your results, I’m currently running a proxy with CloudFlare on some services but not on Plex
it’s a german hoster with datacenters in germany, sweden and since recently the east coast of the US. depending on where you live, hetzner is therefor not an interesting option for you (due to physical distance)
So I got mixed results. With remote access disabled and just using subdomain for plex, it worked on the Windows desktop app, and my iPhone too through the browser, but on my Apple TV even though I could browse the library and select any video, they would not load.
What ended up working on all my devices is essentially running plex behind a VPN, AirVPN in this case because I need the port forwarding, and enabling remote access with the port assigned in AirVPN.
I followed this guide, in case you’re interested: https://reddit.invak.id/r/PleX/comments/152kihs/guide_plex_remote_access_without_port_forwarding/
Thanks a lot for the update! Disappointing that it wouldn’t work behind just CloudFlare, I know my parents use an Apple TV to watch stuff. While I don’t happen to need this right now, it’s very useful to know in case some additional restrictions happen.
It’s against Cloudflare ToS to use video through their services (both the reverse proxy and the tunnel) unless you pay for their video streaming service.
Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Didn’t know
They removed that clause. Ctrl-f “video” on their ToS page gives 0 results
You’re looking in the wrong place. That page is the generic terms of service that applies to all services, whereas the limitation on video is in the CDN-specific terms of service: https://www.cloudflare.com/service-specific-terms-application-services/. Of course they don’t ban video in the generic terms of service, as it’d result in video being banned from their video streaming service :)
I’ve heard that tunnels have a similar restriction since it uses the same infrastructure, but I can’t find the specific clause for it at the moment.
Fair, although you’re probably fine for “hosting jellyfin for your family” levels even then. If cloudflare boots you, swap to a free tier Oracle Cloud VPS and set up an nginx proxy.
Jellyfin ftw
Plex is still the better platform. Jellyfish lacks so much features and isn’t supported on most native TV OS.
I’ve had no trouble setting up jellyfin on Roku, Google/Android, and FireTV. It seems AppleTV is the only major one lacking support right now, and that will hopefully be addressed soon.
I tried out Plex (and Emby) before Jellyfin and was annoyed how much functionality was locked behind a paywall even though I was hosting the content myself. Jellyfin is completely free and lets me add as many users on as many devices as I damn well please.
LG and Samsung TV doesn’t support them. Quite frankly, the two most popular brands of TVs
deleted by creator
Why the hell would I want to go though an unnecessary 3ed party step.
deleted by creator
Not a single valid reason to NOT use the native TV apps is posted there
Convenience is key.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web NAS Network-Attached Storage PIA Private Internet Access brand of VPN Plex Brand of media server package SSL Secure Sockets Layer, for transparent encryption TLS Transport Layer Security, supersedes SSL VPN Virtual Private Network VPS Virtual Private Server (opposed to shared hosting) nginx Popular HTTP server
8 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 12 acronyms.
[Thread #138 for this sub, first seen 15th Sep 2023, 05:35] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
as always for profit orgs are proven to be abusive on their customers… so happy that I’m using Jellyfin
If i could get HW accelleration to work with Jellyfin, like it does in Plex, I would switch yesterday.
Works better for me, I do av1 which I don’t remember plex even supporting
What’s the problem? I gave it GPU access and it just worked. Given Jellyfin is a fork, it shouldn’t be too different
Works fine for me! (DS920+)
The fact that this comment - offering nothing - got the upvotes, while the three comments trying troubleshoot are not tells me everything I need to know about this community
It’s probably just because they posted earlier and some people haven’t seen the newer comments. The other comments are now starting to get upvotes. I wouldn’t place too much emphasis on the voting as a means of measuring a community’s worth anyways.
Works fine for me via VAAPI on Linux using /dev/dri/renderD128. What OS are you using?
Hmm appears that I got it working by trying again. It was something about adding group to my docker compose file that did the trick. Thank you for motivation. 4K HDR is working now!
Next issue, Swiftfin for Apple TV needs quite a bit of polish, for instance I can’t change the subtitles within the player. But perhaps I should pay for Infuse until I feel it’s there.
I’d be quite satisfactory to not support Plex anymore.
It was something about adding group to my docker compose file that did the trick.
Ah yes, I do remember something about certain distros limiting access to /dev/dri/renderD128, so maybe adding the group gave the docker process the necessary permissions? I am not sure, just making guesses right now. Super glad you got it working though!
Next issue, Swiftfin for Apple TV needs quite a bit of polish
Yeah, this is definitely one of the areas Jellyfin needs to catch up on. Their app support is a bit buggy, if not entirely unavailable on certain SmartTV platforms. Definitely an adjustment. I use the Jellyfin chromecast app, and its also buggy with subtitles. Every time I seek, the subtitles get duplicated. I am sure this will all get ironed out over time.
It was definitely linked to Debian, which was something I missed first time around. And not something that needed doing for my Plex instance.
I’ve tried Infuse now and I am very happy with it. It appears very polished, even compared to Plex.
lol “Selfhosted” my ass - that’s why FOSS is superior regardless of features.
Exactly, open source is always worth the extra effort, if any, to get things working. Contribute!
Not really. I bought Plex for $100 13 years ago.
Do you know how much time that saved vs fucking around with xbmc trying to get plugin to work and the media scanner to be consistent?
It was worth every penny and saved me hundreds of hours fucking around with libraries to scan in anime because it doesn’t follow the proper s01e01 format.
My dude if it’s taking hundreds of hours to get Kodi set up for you that’s a you problem. I’ve paid 0$ for Kodi XBMC or jellyfin over the past forever.
Lolol you clearly have no idea how bad xbmc was 13 years ago.
Yeah no. I’ve been installing Kodi since it was XBMC and you needed to break out 007 Nightfire to softmod the original Xbox. Working XBMC /Kodi has been easy from the start. It’s practically unchanged UX since those early days.
[X] doubt
👌👍🤣
Xbmc plugins were garbage and the media scanner was garbage. You people are just forgetting how bad xbmc was, especially if you had it set up with something like sabnbdz which regularly would screw up wherever regex matching they were doing.
The two people who replied to you are the same person hahaha. Sad.
Yes really. You know how much I paid, initially, for Jellyfin, et al, and had them working in an afternoon?
Jellyfin wasn’t even around when I bought Plex. I don’t even think emby was and if it was it was nowhere near as good. So yes Plex has served me well over the years. I am worried about it’s future so have jellyfin all set up in parallel but it still has some show stopper bugs for me to totally migrate over.
You are so eager to be on The Right Team you didn’t even read the comment before replying
Oh, and was that software available in 2013? No? Right, you are just throwing shit against the wall because someone pointed out that Plex was the best software we had, for a reasonable price, for 10 years or so.
You’re the one who mentioned 2013. My point in the original comment was about now. It wasn’t mentioned explicitly but I meant it
always worth the extra effort
Here I am thinking always means past, present, and future. What a fucking idiot I am 🤦♂️.
This ^
Im very curious about what was the actual violation
It’s about the server access sellers, but to block a whole major VPS instead of accounts that commit the violation is kinda absurd.
It looks like another step towards further restricting what users can do with their servers, local or virtual.
So these are people that sell access to (presumably media-filled) existing Plex installations?
That does seem like a problematic thing to do and I understand why Plex wants to shut that down.
But surely their tons of online-integrations and user-account-requirements gives them other tools at their disposal than outright blocking a major VPS provider, that seems insane.
If the vast majority of people on they host were selling access it makes sense. Users don’t want to hear it but Plex has to shield themselves from lawsuits. If you willfully let people break the law with your product as a feature you have no argument in court. Same goes for why they add all these features they core users don’t want. They need a reason to argue that they don’t just make money on piracy. FOSS doesn’t usually get sued though, but nothing is preventing it. Everyone needs to be careful and if your going to illegally download movies don’t be greedy and sell access to it.
That’s a big if. Hetzner isn’t some tiny piracy haven. it’s a well known and very popular German hosting company.
Even if it’s popular with those resellers, it’s certainly also popular with others.
And Plex has ways to identify the problematic hosts. why don’t they just shut those down?
I’m just speculating, but maybe the vast majority of people running on VPS are doing these things. Idk if it’s even allowed in their terms of service.
So they should block only those accounts, not everyone.
Easy to see, no? A filter like "VPS+tons of users+tons of media+tons of concurrent visits from all over the world "
Yeah I got sick of feeling like it wasn’t my plex server even though I have plex lifetime pass. Have stopped using it in favour of jellyfin
I tried out Plex when I was first setting up my media server and having to do a bunch of stuff through Plex servers was one of the main reasons I jumped ship immediately. The hardware is in my house, the files are in my house, I never want it to leave my house, I kept thinking why the hell do I need to mess around with Plex accounts and online connections??
HEY WANNA WATCH LIVE TV?
No thanks I have my offline files
LIVE TV LET’S GOOOOO
There’s nothing good to watch these days. I’ll just stick with the collection of old TV shows I’ve got stashed on my server.
You know it’s kind of funny and damn near every piece of surprise him software is getting into controversies like this but you’ve never heard of a free and open source software ever having these problems
No they just have the problem of someone wanting to ad something and then forking it. And then that fork getting unmaintained. Or the main project loosing steam and dropping off also. Seems to be happing to jellyfin, they are stuck at just good enough.
Sever access sellers are kinda shitty and not what Plex should be about. IMO.
I’m not saying this action is good.
I mean, you’re paying for PaaS (Piracy as a Service).
More reasons I’m glad we switched to Jellyfin
This is the last straw. I already was very shakey with all the restrictions that were piling up, but this is just one thing too much. Cancelling my subscription and installing jellyfin.
Yep same here, I’ve been curious about trying Jellyfin for a long time now so this just gives me all the more reason
I’ve switched few years ago and didn’t look back .
I’m curious, just checked out their site.
I’m a little alarmed at needing to modify SSL and port forward and all that shit. My experiences haven’t been great with port forwarding in the past.
In short jelly fin doesn’t seem as easy as you are all making it out to be.
In short jelly fin doesn’t seem as easy as you are all making it out to be.
It does definitely require a bit more work, especially because Plex does things like authentication and network access for you, but that’s exactly why all of this drama got kicked up in the first place. Plex doesn’t want to get into legal troubles, however unlikely that may be, for providing access to whatever content people are hosting. It isn’t true self-hosting.
True self-hosting requires work and a small amount of technical knowledge, but IMHO it’s worth it for the freedom, privacy, and control.
Yes you’re totally correct, I’ll have to do some more reading.
That’s only if you want to watch it outside your home network, and either way I would recommend not just opening a port to the world like that. I’d say to use Tailscale (which is trivially easy to install) for remote viewing.
I will check into this Trailscale. Thanks!
You have to port forward for Plex as well.
No I believe upnp took care of that in some form, Plex sets it up.
That’s still port forwarding. It’s just automated.
A well-configured network that follows security best practices should always have UPnP disabled.
Well, not sure if I have that then.
Jellyfin also supports UPnP, but you really shouldn’t be exposing the raw ports to the public anyways.
Ideally, you’d setup Jellyfin and a reverse proxy like SWAG that handles the SSL stuff for you.
Thanks, I just realized what community I was in lol. Stumbled in here from the everything tab, so now I understand the technical stuff!
I’ll stick around here a while you’ll have me!
I installed Jellyfin on my server but the Android TV app is just so awful.
It honestly feels like a webpage from 2005 with all the blocky elements, terrible scrolling, and no way to sort.
If you want to go to, say, Workaholics, you have to scroll through your entire library until you get there. There’s no option to go straight to W. And, don’t worry, the scrolling is very slow the whole time!
The search seems to work maybe 10% of the time. I’ve typed in the name of a movie and it wouldn’t find it, but it did find episodes of shows that kinda match. I’ve typed in names of TV shows and it’s found nothing. Both times, the movies and shows existed in my library.
If they can make it look and work better, I’d be happy to switch to it fully. All I’d need then is a way to pull the XMLTV file from Plex so I can record, too.
The Plex app for the Shield has a lot of bugs itself, though. I connected my Shield to a smart plug because it froze the system often enough that I needed to automate a way to restart it. Unfortunately I’d rather put up with that than the Jellyfin UI.
Hmm never had a problem with Jellyfin on the shield pro or cigar one. On the cigar one Netflix always stops showing video and just the loading screen.
I switched to Jellyfin a long time ago and I don’t regret it at all. Even for non-techie friends and family the experience has been more pleasant.
Yeah. it was just pure lazyness on my part. I had Plex setup and all and didn’t want to bother with something new.
I have both side by side syncing with each other. Plex is still better then jellyfin. It’s just more polished has more features and isess buggy. Saying that I use jellyfin all the time but not ready to move others over.
