SO. MUCH. THIS.
Yep. When you can’t easily replace a battery it’s a strong (intentional?) disincentive by the manufacturer that pushes people towards buying a new phone. If you need to surrender your phone for a day or three to get the replacement done, people would rather sign a new contract for a phone than be without.
If only new batteries were easily swappable…
They will be in the EU
flip phones have those, but i’ve never had to swap one. the longest i’ve had one before it broke was ~ 7 years and a charge still lasted about half as long as when it was new (2 weeks vs 4).
they actually fit in a pocket and last a lot longer between charges. i don’t ‘need’ the internet on me 24/7, so i’ll keep getting those as long as they’re still made.
Well, that’s good, but most other people either need to or want to.
Yes, I have one of those as well, but a smartphone is something I carry anyway.
At work my manager still rocks an old Motorola g5 plus. He says phones have reached peak performance and there’s no point of upgrading. Hes a humble, down to earth guy also make $210k/ year.
Peak is definitely not true, but there is no point in upgrading for the foreseeable future.
I hope my phone lasts me decades. I don’t really see it being incapable of doing what I need it to unless we radically change how we use our phones.
I’m sure people have felt the same way about PCs, too. Ever since Sandy Bridge, there hasn’t really been a reason for most PC users to upgrade unless they were gaming or did some other CPU-intensive task.
I’ll tell you right now your phone wont last a decade.
That battery, even with light usage, will eventually degrade to the point you’ll have to charge it multiple times a day to keep it alive.
and then you’ll have to do the math and decide between getting a new battery and just getting a new phone.
Thats the decision i had to make when I needed a battery for my old phone… Did the math and found the cost of a new (to me) used phone was close enough to the cost of the replacement battery + labor that it was more value to me getting the newer phone, with newer OS, and still in the receiving update window than putting a aftermarket battery in my old phone.
Granted, the math gets heavily skewed in favor of a new battery if you are well experienced in cellphone disassembly and know you can do it without breaking the screen or back. I’m not, and any savings would go out the door if I broke anything, which is why I was going to let a professional do it.
I would listen to you, but I was using my previous phone for 5 years and noticed no degradation in battery life. I only upgraded to this one because it was free.
Sorry man, maybe you’re right and time will tell. But we’ll just have to wait and see. This phone has a significantly larger battery, too.
If there was no degredation after 5 years and thousands of charge cycles, then you need to rush your phone off to scientists so they can discover the miracle materials inside it 😜
The problem is that there are security updates that those old phones need and aren’t getting. The whole “let’s tie the operating system binaries to the hardware” thing was always dumb, somehow Windows can handle binary-blob drivers that aren’t built into the OS.
Oh I loved that phone! I still have it but I didn’t have the balls to replace the built in battery so I reluctantly decided to upgrade
He replaced the battery by himself. Ordered stuff from ifixit.
Dawg, I only upgrade phones and laptops once every 8 years or so. These things are EXPENSIVE, I can’t afford one more often than that.
My current tablet came out in 2014, that’s when I got it. It’ll be a decade old in just a few months.
Besides swapping the battery out twice over the years, it still works great and does everything I need it to do. Fantastic big AMOLED display, too.
I’m still rocking my Galaxy S8! Gonna keep it till the battery is toast.
Replacing the battery is not too hard too
S7, hoping to move up soon, but the paper aint really been there and it’s not like Pokemon Go’s a high priority in my life
Yea, idk, I’m upgrading my phone after 3 years, and if this buyer comes through I’ll have paid $100 for that 3 years of use.
I think a lot of people treat the idea of upgrading often as the old become ewaste immediately or is just kept in a drawer. But selling my used gear while it still has value keeps my overall burden down and devices much cheaper. I upgraded to the Pro Max this year, and out of pocket after this sale I’m spending $350. If I had had the Pro Max before I’d probably be getting another $100 or so for my used device. I’ll do the same thing in 3 - 5 years depending on if/when I have an incentive to upgrade again.
Laptops and tablets are a different story since they don’t keep their value quite as well as iPhones do, and if I’m honest have a much smaller impact on my daily life.
Most of those older $300-400 Android phones are ewaste for the most part after 3-5 years. Higher-end everything is more valuable and generally lasts longer. $50 work boots vs $400 work boots.
Modern $300-400 phones however I think will last 5 years easily in terms of performance depending on your needs.
Which tablet is it?
I keep seeing the complaints, but do enough people actually upgrade yearly? Because anecdotally (including online communities in this) I have seen most people claim that they only upgrade every 3-5 years and I think that’s sensible as an upgrade cycle and will only get longer now if my own feelings match the general populace.
I personally have found myself needing an upgrade every 3 years on average and think I’ll find a way to go longer with phones which don’t lose security updates around the exact time the battery starts swelling on my old phone (my previous reason for upgrading and seems to be happening again)
In the US at least, I think most people get their phones through their carrier and are stuck on a contract paying it off for ~3 years. I think rich people and enthusiasts/fanboys are the only ones who upgrade every year or buy it unlocked at full price from the manufacturer.
I am not in the US and not locked into a contract and neither is anyone I know IRL but nonetheless we do upgrade at the same cadence. As for the people who upgrade their phones yearly, unless they’re keeping the old phones in a locked box I think it is not that bad if those old phones see use as an upgrade for someone else (either given or sold as a second hand device) or even if those phones run duty as a makeshift device.
I personally think it only becomes a problem if it’s literally e-waste or if the majority of people were upgrading yearly (which is again because it’ll lead to the first problem but felt like putting it separately too). If it’s playing some role in the world it’s okay¹ in my book.
^(1: I wonder if people who use their old phones as a secondary device (eg: a music player for running)^) ^(are creating e-waste or not. As in if it would’ve been better if they used only one device for both purposes and either gave/sold the old phone or didn’t buy a new phone in the first place. After all one could make the case that battery degradation would make them need an earlier upgrade)
Most people in the world buys full price from manufacturer. And they are not rich or enthusiasts at all. It’s just in the US the consumerist mindset of paying $1500 over 3 years for a $800 phone is enforced by the carriers. And the ones who go out of that mindset to fanboy, buy $1500 overpriced phones. Most people aren’t buying flagship phones. Mid and low performance phones are perfectly serviceable for the vast majority of people.
It’s impossible if the vendors stop shipping os updates. I can’t use an out of date phone for my works 2fa push. Kept my phone for 5 years and it was still going, but the planned obsolescence got me.
Have work issue you a hardware FIDO token (such as a yubikey) or give you separate cell phone just for work. They legally can’t make you upgrade but if your phone can’t get enough security updates to install an Authenticator it is probably time to upgrade to be honest.
the thing is most of the phones are fully capable of running the modern version of the operating system they shipped with but the vendors stop supporting the products to make you buy more shit
Writing this on an iPX which got its last update this week, 6 years old now but I’m just waiting for my banking apps to require iOS17. People will blame development costs for excluding older phones but there is no reason iPhones should not get iOS updates for 10+ years to save App developers the work.
Well there is, if you wish for apps created by others than large corporations with hundreds or thousands of developers. It will get better with time now when progress is slower.
But phones 10 years ago were absolutely trash compared to those we have today.
My dad still uses my iPhone6, still perfectly usable, admittedly that is a 9 year old phone but I’m not seeing anything making that one obsolete in the near future.
As you say modern phones are not progressing that fast any more, it’s time we made Apple and Google support OS updates for longer. Apple certainly charge app developers enough for the burden to be on them and not the 3rd parties.
I don’t think iPhone 6 had 5G cellular or WiFi6. As those become dominant, iPhone 6 will seem hopelessly slow.
No more updates. Probably no more parts, like batteries.
There have been a lot of hardware improvements over time. iPhone 6 might text and talk, but most of use use a phone for a lot more. It’s time
First and foremost, don’t feel pressured to get a new hand tablet with a ten-lense DSLR stapled to the front every single year.
I know Straits only used a picture of an iPhone to get more clicks, but Apple is the least of the offenders when it comes to this. iOS 17 runs on phones released six years ago (including the last iPod touch!), and security updates go a couple years further back than that. I wish Android phones could guarantee that kind of lifespan.
Battery replacement sucks on every smartphone except for obscure modular phones that suddenly lose support or the company goes out of business. But the newest iPhone actually makes it easier to replace the battery (read: still sucks a bit). So, while you have to jump through hoops, you can replace the battery on every smartphone (usually through official channels, but also by other means if needed).
What needs to happen is the masses need to be taught that it’s okay to keep your phone for a few years. Phones need to regarded like cars. Drive it until you can’t, THEN get a new car. And when you do, consider a newer used car. Once that becomes commonplace, then companies will be forced to tone down their release schedules.
Agree with all of this, however there isn’t any need to tone down release schedules. There being a new product doesn’t force you to buy it, however it does mean that when you do come to buy it there is a fresh model available. For example imagine if they adopt a 3 year release cycle and you break your phone on year 2.9, now you’re forced to buy a model with a 3 year out of date feature that will itself be obsolete faster, especially since a new model is round the corner. This isn’t the best system. Better the phone companies keep making the latest tech available, so when you do need to buy you can get the phone with the longest life ahead of it.
This isn’t talked about enough. Apple at least for now support more older models than most if not all androids. The key is not to buy into the marketing. Phones today are good enough and mature enough to not need to be at the bleeding edge every other year. Just get a new case, new wallpaper and swap the battery before deciding a new phone.
Honestly if you care about camera improvements, get a second hand semi decent mirrorless or point and shoot camera. Way more fun. And easy replaceable battery and storage.
that’s why Apple forces replacement parts to be paired with the original device, making impossible for repair shops to scrap and reuse parts of broken iPhones to repair others.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/82493/we-are-retroactively-dropping-the-iphones-repairability-score-en
Guilty as charged. I get a new phone about every two years. Do I need a new phone every two years? Absolutely not. All essential features work just fine on older devices. Why do I still do it? Probably because I’m too enthusiastic about new hardware.
I hand down my old devices to family members, and when I hand a device down, the receiver hands their device down to another family member. So the phones I purchase are actively in use for at least six years. 6 years is around the point where Apple drops support for major new iOS updates, and eventually also security updates. Batteries get old and replacement costs tend to get very close to the remaining value of the device itself.
I’m not trying to justify buying a new smartphone for myself every other year, but there’s only so much you can do as a consumer. Sure, there are aftermarket ROMs for many Android devices that extend software support, but that’s hardly something everyone can install and maintain. You can get replacement batteries from trustworthy brands for fairly little money, but then you either have to replace them yourself (which isn’t trivial for many people), or pay someone more money to replace it for you.
In my opinion, only a small (or at least lesser) portion of the blame is on the consumer. The EU and other governing bodies need to step in and require manufacturers to:
- Provide at least 10 years of software updates. This doesn’t have to include a ton of new features, but it should include compatibility updates (so newer versions of apps run just fine) and obviously security updates. Some people use devices with hopelessly outdated software and they are fine with it, but I’d say up-to-date software is very important nowadays (look at the recent WebP bug for example).
- Provide replacement parts, especially batteries, for at least 10 years without a profit margin, including a service that replaces these parts - again without profit margin.
- Make batteries user replaceable. The EU is already demanding this, so give it a few years and we’ll hopefully get at least that.
- As a bonus, make phones modular and upgradable. Framework shows how it can be done for laptops, I’m sure it’s possible to miniaturize this to smartphones, even though this probably has its limitations.
If all this is in place we can start blaming the average consumer.
Still, people like me aren’t completely innocent, I’ll admit that. I know that I’m just fine using older devices. I used a first generation iPad Pro 12,9" for a long time. I think it had a dual core A9X SoC. I eventually upgraded to an M1 iPad Pro and sure, the old device was way slower (or rather the new device was a lot faster), but I’m not doing anything with the new iPad that the old one couldn’t handle somehow.
You could maybe even put a small portion of the blame on developers (or rather, people in charge at software companies). Many apps use frameworks like React Native to port their apps to mobile, and while it’s better than Electron, it’s still nowhere near as efficient as a true native Swift UI or Android (don’t know how their current UI framework is called) app. Huge companies that clearly have the budget to make individual, native apps for each platform rarely do this anymore (Discord, Instagram, …). Building efficient apps would likely make customers less annoyed that their old phone is “getting slower”.
I think it’s weird to get enthusiastic abount something and then bored with it in two years.
If it was worth getting enthusiastic about, wouldn’t it last me longer? Lol.
What about new phones is driving you to get a new one? The industry has been stagnant for quite a while now and every year it feels like the only selling point is “camera improvements”. If anything I think phones have lost features over time with the last worthwhile phone being the Galaxy S10 with everything since being a downgrade in multiple ways.
I for one feel like the hardware hasn’t actually gotten better “enough” since I got my Galaxy Note 9. All the “improvements” feel marginal at best and don’t give me the impression that they’d impact my user experience enough to justify the loss of a headphone jack.
Fuck ALL that jackless horseshit.
AND I still can, and do, use wireless earbuds!
Whenever the cable of my trusty wired ones might get in the way.
(Which is seldom)
I for one feel like the hardware hasn’t actually gotten better “enough” since I got my Galaxy Note 9. All the “improvements” feel marginal at best and don’t give me the impression that they’d impact my user experience enough to justify the loss of a headphone jack.
Fuck ALL that jackless horseshit.
AND I still can, and do, use wireless earbuds!
Whenever the cable of my trusty wired ones might get in the way.
(Which is seldom)
Sure, there are aftermarket ROMs for many Android devices that extend software support, but that’s hardly something everyone can install and maintain.
They could be if device makers, app developers, and Google didn’t actively try to make it harder.
Provide replacement parts, especially batteries, for at least 10 years without a profit margin, including a service that replaces these parts - again without profit margin.
you’d have to nationalize hardware production and service. for-profit companies would not accept a zero-profit decade-long obligation like that.
Phones have to easily repairable before you can blame consumers for upgrading. Cell phones are pretty essential for modern life and most of us don’t want to be without them for long. The upgrade allows for people to not have to worry about what to do when something out of warranty breaks. It is like fixing your car. In warranty, the manufacturer or dealer takes care of things. Out of warranty, you have to find a repair shop. Finding a repair shop is difficult. Trying to get a second or third quote on a broken car is difficult and costly.
The alternative is to make repair shops have transparent prices and make it easy for them to get oem parts. The other option is to force companies to warranty their phones for longer. Until the government does one of those you can’t blame consumers.
It is possible to find phones that are easy to repair in Europe. I think they are going to hit the American market in a few months.
So now that people have options, it is really on the consumer side.
I know about the fairphone. It just now became available for sell in the US No one except maybe IT people know about it. Consumers have to know about the choice to make it. It is also ridiculous to point to one choice that isn’t available yet and blame the consumers.
I meant now that there will be an option. Plus, I’m not blaming, that would make no sense because I thought the phone wasn’t out yet.
Yeah, but that’s an insanely recent development
Yep. I’ve had a pixel 6 for the past 2 years. It’s still phenomenal. Zero issues with it. I’m keeping it another year.
My old iPhone phone gets sent to a developing country to be used by another person.
It’s not going to landfill just yet.
5 year old Oneplus 6.
Does everything I want it to. Everything still works. Rooted. No ads. Still runs fast. Never used up 80% of storage.
Only notable issue is my battery. If i’m away from WiFi and I’m using it a lot (listening to YouTube ad free on fire fox) then I’ll run outta battery by the end of the day.
Near as I can see cell phones hit a plateau 4 years ago. And unless you have a phone with built in obsoletence - there’s no reason to upgrade anymore for the average user.
Eventually, when your phones gives out,.consider a pre-rooted Fairphone.
5 year warranty, decade long software support, and everything is easily user replaceable including the battery.
The steps are in this order. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Keep your own phone for now to reduce
Wow! That sounds right up my alley.
I found out the last time I bricked my phone that the number of people willing to help me had gone from ‘help in minutes - live help’ to ‘answers via a forum - hours and days response time’ and that’s why my phone hasn’t changed anything major in 8 months. I’m too afraid to mess anything up.
I looked at this today. Aside from the initial investment this seems to be amazing.
Makes me with I cared more about my privacy to take advantage of the options.
And that I had the motivation to learn more phone based programming…
I’ve book marked it for future investment
I dunno, my phone’s always start to have issues if I keep them too long. Boot loops, frequent crashing, random resets, functionality failing to work as it did when new, lack of security updates, etc. The hardware is built to fail
…no longer receiving updates.
Also it was hella expensive back then. You can get a Pixel 8 for the same price with 7 years of updates. Way better value.
Yeah :( I love my 2017-2018 phone to death (it’s a Pixel 2 XL, and in the ~€400 phone market they are still trying to beat its camera quality 6 years later - and since it’s a Pixel it’s still more fluid than several phones I try in store, like €400-500 Samsungs, that display evident stutters that mine does not), but it has started with the random crashes and “dying” (boot loops followed by not turning on anymore) for a few minutes / hours before coming back to its senses occasionally
Yeah, I’d still be using my galaxy note 4 if it didnt start having so many issues. Used that phone for what seemed like 6 years. Well built, but the replaceable batteries that were reliable were harder to come by. It had boot loop issues, it had some sort of memory corruption defect that was common with note 4s.
I got my phone for free, thankfully, from Visible. They were going to make me upgrade, but I never did and they just decided to send me a new phone instead.
First time I’ve gotten a new phone for free since I was a kid.
Somewhat related. My grandpa has had a Nokia flip phone since I was a kid. It’s around 20 years old. It’s survived so much abuse. He’s replaced the battery in it about a dozen times. He got a call last year from ATT saying due to the 3G shut off and other network changes his phone will no longer work. They upgraded his plan and sent him an S21 all for free. First new phone he’s ever had since the Nokia. I’m dreading the experience in 3-4 years when he calls me that the battery sucks and shit acting up.
He could sell the S21 and get a Fairphone instead? At least then the battery is still replaceable along with other components.
Sure, let’s blame consumer for corporate policies
It’s both really. Too many people rock a cracked screen, then upgrade it as soon as they can. Rather than looking after their device or getting it repaired.
But at the same time, corporations limit device longevity due to bad practices. Like limited security updates, planned obsolescence and anti-repair policies.
In short, not enough people care enough, and the companies prey on this. Attacking the “upgrade culture” is valuable, as legislating against these bad practices can only happen if the people exert enough political pressure
Same situation as plastic straws. Let’s blame the public for using straws, when actually it’s industries and corporate policies that refuse to adopt better practices.
