Whaaaaat? You mean electric last-mile micromobility cuts down on emissions in a significant way, just like people had been saying for years? Who would have thought?
Car-brain finds small electric vehicles are more efficient, in shocking study.
… but will instantly fabricate reasons why the car will be needed at least 5 times a day anyway.
First and foremost, people can afford them.
Second, they are more fun and you get to avoid all the traffic.
Third, cheap to run, no need to pay insurance, taxes, parking.
Fourth, anyone can ride it even children, no drivers license needed.
And so on…
In Norway, insurance is mandatory. And you have to be over 13 (or something like this). But in general, I agree with you.
Not sure what electric cars has to do with this topic. But I guess someone wanted to start a fight between car people and non car people going by the extreme cross posting.
Cyclists have been telling the media and the public this for 50 years (we used to have electric milkfloats here in the UK in the 1960s to 1990s). And they were demonised and gaslit for it.
Proponents have been fought tooth and nail since electric vehicles were invented, and it was the public who was gaslighted- not they. Why try to change the minds of those who know they are right, when you can just change the minds of people not to listen to them…
“You can fool some people all of the time, and all people some of the time, but you can not fool all people all of the time.”
No matter how you feel about them, when your mate shows you his new electric car you still greet him with a request for a pint of semi skimmed.
Oh really? Maybe not moving 2,5 tons of metal and battery isnt a good idea? Maybe bikes were always a better mode of transport? I have a feeling that this was pretty obvious.
until it is raining and winter
A fully enclosed velomobile would probably do the job, but I don’t think it’s legal anywhere in Europe :(
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The article talks about electric bikes, not normal ones. That’s e-bikes, or rather what I suspect that they are peddling as a newsertainment article: e-scooters.
Great. All technologies that bring down CO2 emissions are needed.
As long as people get rid of their dino juice cars, who cares.
Yeah, right. And make 15 tonns of co2 extra, that would not have been needed when filling up the “Dino juice” car with “techno juice” that has 0% CO2.
But, we’ve lost the battle anyway already, so who cares.
Oh I see, you thinking alterative fuels to keep legacy car going. Problem is, those are biofuels and use a lot of land to grow and end up even more expensive than dino juice.
EV running costs is way cheaper and their up front costs is coming down fast. They use slightly more CO2e to make, but way way less to run. Plus those of us lucky enough to have drives can just charge at home, which is great. There does need to better infrastructure for those without drives.
I also think one aspect that keeps getting omitted from the conversation are exhaust fumes.
We know that they are toxic and a common cause of any number of cardio-vascular and other diseases, including straight up turning you into a god damned moron. Yet it’s perfectly accepted that we fill every cubic centimeter of our cities with them, and expect everyone to breathe in the noxious gasses every day of our lives.
I don’t want to inhale your exhaust fumes, I don’t want to die faster and under greater pain just because you can’t be arsed to bike instead of driving a car.
I don’t think the toxic fumes are left out of the conversation. It’s horrifying round schools at drop off or pick up. In decades to come we’ll look back in amazement what was acceptable.
Bingo bongo. There are also tons of greenhouse gases + other pollution associated with cars that are not the gas they burn to drive. Road infrastructure is a big one.
Ties are a problem that we are just beginning to understand. But we can replace and keep the car.
I mean don’t get me wrong, I’d love good public transport instead. When it’s good, people use it instead. When I go to a decent (European) city I want to ditch the car a.s.a.p as it’s just a hamper.
Goddamn I love my ebike. It’s still very much a bike, but it changes the equation. I can ride a nice big heavy comfortable cruising frame, pull my kid in a trailer bike, get up steep hills that would otherwise stop me, and go 4x as far before I’m tired. It is just a total game changer. I’ve rediscovered the joy of riding my bike like I haven’t known it since college. I’m older and creakier than ever but my bike enjoyment hasn’t diminished - it has increased.
Same! I live on the top of a big hill, so leaving my house on a bike was never the issue, but I always dreaded the ride home. Now I own an ebike and I regularly use it to go into town for groceries. In fact, I just added a second basket so I can buy three full bags of groceries in one trip. I find myself actually looking forward to errands now.
Also, it keeps you in shape!
Yes! And I’m pretty lazy about exercise so having the “help me” button there keeps me from avoiding the bike.
Ebikes need secure destination parking or they lose usefulness
Also safety. In my area the bike lanes are just paint and some streets don’t have sidewalks.
I know drivers are idiots but in my area bikes are supposed to ride on the streets. Could get a ticket for being in the sidewalk.
Same where I live, too. But I ride on the sidewalk anyway. No one has ever said anything about it in decades and I’d rather not get killed.
i just dont understand how usa and europe still has this super high bike thievery
Great income disparity, and the bikes are worth thousands, so valuable targets.
I have heard this for years now. This all fine. I also have an E-Bike. I really love using it. But I live in central Europe. Weather is really shitty here from October-March. I use my car then. And no, clothing for biking in bad weather is not an option for me. I really can’t be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won’t do that.
shameless plug !wintercycling@lemmy.world
And the issue is where? You can just fuel up your car with co2 neutral fuel (like many Europeans already do with HVO100 Diesel in Sweden, the Netherlands and many other countries) and do the rest with your ebike. You probably dropped your co2 footprint to less than 5 tonns. The fact that HVO100 Diesel right now is ~30 cents more expensive doesn’t matter anymore. B33 gasoline is coming and 2025 it’s expected to be ramped up to 100% sustainable.
And compared to a BEV that needs more than 10-15 tonns to be even produced, just driving an older or cheaper car longer still makes it less co2 overall.
I really can’t be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won’t do that
I mean… you do you, but that gear generally amounts to a jacket, pants that go OVER your pants and different shoes. You’re just fucking lazy. Own it
Yup. I invested in rain pants and a jacket, all I need now are shoe coverings. Get to work, strip it all off in 30 secs and put it in a waterproof bag. It’s just a matter of adjusting expectations and habits.
To me it’s way less complicated than driving. I don’t have to worry about gas, traffic, parking, maintenance, break downs, and the stress of driving in the rain trying not to kill anyone. I understand why people are hesitant, but I think a lot of people just need to suck it up and give it a shot.
Also, public transportation is just straight up better than both driving/cycling when done right.
I went to dedicated rain/winter shoes and it was much better than overshoe booties.
You’re just fucking lazy.
Absolutely. Is there any context in which you can “I can’t be bothered with…” interpret as anything else as lazy? But so what? I will not ride my bike in shitty weather. And most people will do the same thing.
You can also do you, but you kind of lose any sort of moral high ground in this argument by insisting that others solve the problem for you when you can’t even do the bare fucking minimum
So… I go to work by e-bike 8 out of 12 months. Whenever I take my car, I take my BEV (MG4) that I charge with electricity from renewable sources.
And you? What do you actually do for the environment?
If you want to play the upstreaming game, where did the rare earth metals in your electric car come from?
Electric cars are here to save the car industry, not the environment.
Let’s stay on topic: Environment. Human rights is a whole nother can of worms. What do you think the supply chain of whatever device you are using for lemmee right now looks like?
Back to environment: What are you doing for the environment except for judging others: I drive a car that has a very low carbon footprint regarding its whole lifespan. Also I ride to work on an E-Bike 8 out of 12 months. What are you doing?
Is this some universe where people forgot bikes exist? How are electric vehicles better than riding a bike?
They are much better for the shareholders.
For people with disabilities and chronic injuries, yes they are better and provides accessibility. Don’t forget that people with disabilities exist in this universe too.
Less effort? I don’t know where environmentalists got the idea that the average guy is a cross fit three time gold medalist, most people want effortless traversal
You’d be surprised how easy biking is. Plus the more you do it the easier it gets.
It also makes you less fat, and smarter. Yes, exercise actually makes you smarter. Maybe we should push people towards exercising, and let them discover bikes by themselves?
Right so everyone with chronic injuries are just too stupid to work it out! Of course. So simple! /s
I’m a cyclist myself and a few members of my family went out and bought ebikes before they would even go on casual kid friendly rides with me on their traditional bikes. While I appreciate the ebike making people more confident biking I feel like the people I know with ebikes could have literally just used a traditional bike and in a month they wouldn’t find it hard.
People with disabilities would benefit. We get it. You don’t approve of them having something that could possibly benefit them.
I didn’t mention people with disabilities. I’m very pro people with disabilities buying and using ebikes. What I am attempting to get across is that a lot of people would do great with trying to cycle before dropping big money on an ebike.
easier to steal too, which why prefer folded bike so I can take it to my office instead of parking it outside for easy theft
I would love to have a Brompton or something like that for the same reason. Or easier to take it to other cities to ride.
Or that people with disabilities exist and probably benefit from e-bikes too.
This is the problem with bikes. When the car dominated it lead to bikes being a sport thing only. My Grandfather rode a bicycle everywhere. To the shops, to his mates, to the pub, definitely to work (he said the gates opened at 5pm and all the bikes rolled out into the road). He also smoked like a fucking chimney. Everyone did back then. So no, the problem is not environmentalists having unreasonable expectations on the human body, its modern people having become lazy and weak - even to the point where they wont investigate how people used to get by.
Seriously, and cycling isn’t really even that strenuous. Like the fact that people actually believe this makes it all the more clear why obesity rates are sky high. Like do really people not understand how bodies work?
It doesn’t look like you do if you’re so oblivious that people with disabilities would benefit with something like this.
That’s where other means of public transport such as transit, trains, and buses fill in— all things that help reduce carbon emissions as well. Larger sidewalks too. What we need are options.
Ebikes and eScooters exist though
It’s funny people are forgetting that when they’re the main topic of the article
I think big cars and SUV should be banned.everyone should use a moped or a bike but 9-5s pretending to be rich will hate it.
How about just banning fossile fuels…?
Doesn’t solve Stupid Ugly Vehicle problem
That’s true.
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SUVs have lower cargo capacity than more fuel efficient vans, and often even less than cars like old Foresters. They 100% serve no purpose, but people have been tricked in to believing this lie about cargo capacity.
Even trucks today have lower cargo capacity than vans, while also having worse fuel efficiency.
But lets for s second assume this lie is true. Why not require a commercial license for any vehicle built on a truck frame? Prove you need it and you could get an exception.
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My only problem with ebikes is there’s no chance in hell I’m consistently driving on the road with cars.
With how convenient these are, I hope there’s more push to add protected bike lanes in road heavy places to increase adoption.
Looks like your problem is not with ebikes, but your city’s infrastructure.
It is, and we have some of the best in the country at that. It’s just takes a long time to make a place meant for cars into meant for bikes
We aren’t no Netherlands.
Get an electric scooter, Vespa size. It’s super convenient.
To clarify - I’m not going on the road in anything but a car
Protected lanes or paths only for me on any form of bike/scooter
So you are afraid of cars so you take your own car… I fully understand that but it is all the problem.
We have to constantly remind drivers that road are for everyone, and not only to go full speed.
Here they painted bikes on roads and put speed limit at 30kmh so it is better, drivers seems more conscious, but we still see too much distracted people that don’t realize they can easily kill someone just by not looking constantly at the road.
There are way too many cyclist accidents here, it’s not worth it. Some of the accidents even happen at the special bike crossings because of bad drivers.
And scooters just like motorcycles are death traps.
Edit: nearly everyone I know who’s commuted to work on a bike has been hit by a car at some point. Not all city speed hits, some just taps. And the stories of how shitty the drivers are to them on the road is astounding.
I’m a bit in the same situation. I can a lot with my bike but it’s dangerous at times, especially with my kids in the back. People need to go to places and unfortunately, everything we built for the last 70years were almost just for cars.
There’s a need for more bike lanes and bus/tramways/métro.
Even with more bike lanes, we need better visibility at points where bike lanes intersect with the roadway to better alert both the car and biker to the danger. They’ve been working on painting those areas all green on the road here, but there’s a lot of spots to do.
E.g bike lane intersecting an entrance to a parking lot
Chicken :-)
I work remote now, but my last job was only 20mins away, but I pretty much had to use the highway. Other routes just made the trip too long, so I can’t even imagine commuting in a bike to that job.
Is this because of China? Big middle class all wanting cars but the cities were designed pre-car, so bikes make more sense and cost less?
Outside of the US, almost everywhere in the developed world, there is a big bike revolution happening. Paris, London, Montreal, etc. have massively expanded their bike networks.
China has surging electric car sales. Almost every city will have wide 4 lane thoroughfares. At least they do have separate bike lanes, but then have pedal and ebikes mixed, with pedestrians for fun!
Exactly why 'muricans won’t get rid of their wankpanzers.
this and how the urbanists fuck up cities, you don’t want to drive a car, for sure. be it electric. two time this week, train were delayed, adding a wopping 1h30 to my commute.
I more than ever for renewal and common transportation but damn, dear these semi-public companies suck!
How are urbanists fucking up cities? By definition they are the ones trying to make them better.
I see more concrete than ever, I see more only-one way than ever which extend your traffic time and if you miss your exit or street, you are screwed and goog to do a full consuming/polluting detour to reach your destination. I don’t mind if commute were performant, not ugly or dystopian.
I don’t see much place for grass/trees etc.
Near my house, they destroyed an old fabric to build fucking cheap soul less apartments. They are literally building new “blocks” on landfields while there’s plenty of free apartment in the city. fucking real-estate mafia and mayor’s corruption.
I am from old Europe and we used to have nice architecture and city organization.
Maybe they meant urban designers
