• Reality Suit
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    81 year ago

    So they CAN make cars cheaper. I bet they still post profit while claiming they’re losing money.

  • @onlinepersona@programming.dev
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    111 year ago

    Somewhat unrelated: IINM most Europeans don’t drive even a quarter of the max range of EVs on most of their trips. The current range of EVs should be just fine it you plug it in every day like your phone. Getting an EV that can get you to work and back or to a friend and back without charging should already allow to buy an EV that’s quite affordable.

    • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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      31 year ago

      IINM

      That’s a new one to me. I’m surprised because I thought abbreviations in that style are starting to die out.

    • @MoodyRaincloud@feddit.nl
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      131 year ago

      Most Europeans have one, max 2 cars per household. A fuckton of Europeans also go on holiday with their cars once or twice a year.

      One car needs to work for most use cases. It’s fine if you have more cars than people in the house that one of them is a 100 mile range commuter, but a different kettle of fish if the same car needs to do an 800+ mile trip to the Mediterranean in summer and a 500 mile ski trip in winter.

      • @Infinitus@lemmy.world
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        31 year ago

        Also, I know a lot of people who do more than 100 km per day - and that is important. When you are buying a car, you aren’t looking only at what you need now, but what you might need in the future.

  • MrSilkworm
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    1 year ago

    Fear of cheap Chinese EVs spurs automaker dash for affordable cars

    fear of competition spurs automakers to make competitive products. FTFY

  • @vivadanang@lemm.ee
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    191 year ago

    gee the market has been clamoring for a decade while the auto industry said “BIG TRUCKS AND SUV’S!”

    • yeehaw
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      21 year ago

      I mean there’s still a good amount of people in my position where you can’t fit 3 car seats in any ev in the market. Haven’t checked in the past year, maybe it’s changed but I also can’t afford to waste 60k+

      • @Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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        31 year ago

        Honestly it feels like most companies producing child seats and strollers and whatnot (as well as the stores that stock and sell them) have stopped putting any focus on solutions for 2 or more children and instead only produce solutions for only children. I’ve got 2 young kids 2 years apart and we had a heck of a time finding a double stroller among other things

        • yeehaw
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          31 year ago

          I did, I tried to fit my seats in one actually. Before making a snarky comment, you should do your research and know that not all car seats conform to a size. Some are bigger than others and the front seats cannot touch the car seat in a rear facing configuration. I’m tall enough there was no way I could drive the car.

          • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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            11 year ago

            what sized seats do you have that it doesn’t fit into a fucking Ioniq5?

            maybe you will need the Kia EV9 then, because that is a ridiculously sized thing.

            • yeehaw
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              11 year ago

              They also can’t touch side to side. I think you must just not know a lot about the safety requirements of car seats. All EVs were typically very narrow too.

              • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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                11 year ago

                I have a Hyundai i40 CW, IT’S A huge car, by eruopean standards anyway.

                the Ioniq l5 is wider by 7.5 cms and has a longer wheelbase by 23 cms

                if you can’t fit inside that thing then you simply have oversized shit, the fuck do you drive now?

  • AutoTL;DRB
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    41 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    LONDON/DETROIT, Dec 8 (Reuters) - The rise of inexpensive Chinese electric vehicles has upped the pressure on legacy automakers who have turned to suppliers, from battery materials makers to chipmakers, to squeeze out costs and develop affordable EVs quicker than previously planned.

    “Automakers are really now only turning to affordable vehicles, knowing they’ve got to or they will lose out to Chinese manufacturers,” said Andy Palmer, chairman of UK startup Brill Power, which has developed hardware and software to boost EV battery management system performance.

    Palmer, formerly Aston Martin’s CEO, said Brill Power’s products could boost EV range by 60% and enable smaller batteries.

    Stellantis (STLAM.MI) is building a European plant with China’s CATL (300750.SZ) to make cheaper LFP batteries and recently unveiled the Citroen electric e-C3 SUV, which starts at 23,300 euros ($24,540).

    Vincent Pluvinage, CEO of Palo Alto, California-based OneD Battery Sciences, said that on his recent visits with European automaker customers, every meeting started with the same refrain: “‘Reducing costs is now more important than anything else.’”

    Veekim CEO Peter Siegle said using cheaper ferrite and low-cost processes - including 3D-printed copper wiring - can cut an EV motor’s price by 20%.


    The original article contains 809 words, the summary contains 195 words. Saved 76%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
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    911 year ago

    If you see that European car makers sell the same car in China for less than half than they charge at home, you know they are basically milking us just for extra profit.

    • @abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Except it’s rarely the “same car”. For example a Tesla Model 3 manufactured in China has an LFP lithium-ion battery, while the US manufactured ones use an NCA lithium-ion battery. It’s by far the most expensive component of the car and LFP batteries are much cheaper.

      There are often other differences too - such as optional extras being standard in one market. And warranties vary (those are not free - it costs money to fix faulty cars and they factor it into the sale price).

      • @Obi@sopuli.xyz
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        131 year ago

        Sounds like what I’d like is whatever options or differences that make the car half as cheap.

        • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          21 year ago

          I think their implication is that whenever they’re selling in China is kind of trash, and you wouldn’t think it’s a good deal if you looked closely.

          • @iegod@lemm.ee
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            41 year ago

            Furthermore regulations would prohibit said trash from being available in certain areas.

        • @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          101 year ago

          But with the American version you can have a janky mounted door and someone that forgets to install the brake disks

      • @weew@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        actually they’ve been selling the LFP version in North America for a while now. Even with the extra import costs and reduced government grant due to a Chinese battery, it still ends up cheaper.

    • @Daiken@lemmy.world
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      171 year ago

      Not true. Most products aren’t the cost of the materials. There are a lot of included expenses in the price of a product like the cost of labor. They’re also not the same cars.

      • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
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        81 year ago

        I am well aware that there are costs beside materials and labor. In my company, I’m part of those other costs - I’m R&D. The point is still: Why shall we bear all those costs and others don’t? Don’t expect people being happy about being handled gross unfair.

        They’re also not the same cars.

        Yes, there are differences. But they are small, and could be incorporated in a low-cost version of European cars, too - if they actually want a low cost version here.

        • @iegod@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Why shall we bear all those costs and others don’t

          That sounds like standard supply demand. If you can bear it, and there is no alternative, you will. But moreover as was mentioned there are reasons that may require a product being different prices in different markets as operating expenses are not the same. The simple cost of launching a product in different markets incurs different costs, and thus different prices. That’s a trivial example, and with vehicles it gets really complex at the regulatory level, especially in regulatory-rich countries which are common in the EU.

          • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
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            51 year ago

            If you can bear it, and there is no alternative, you will.

            And that is the point that will break the European car makers necks. The Chinese just start being alternatives, just like Japanese cars were in the 80s and 90s.

            • @Bloodyhog@lemm.ee
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              11 year ago

              To give it credit, Japanese cars are now among the best in class, and can be enjoyed on a global market at a “reasonable” price. Took them a few decades to get there though. When/if Chinese manufacturers get to that level - that would be a win for the common consumer anywhere. And European companies with their trend to sell less, but more expensive, cars, will likely be outcompeted.

  • @DrunkenPirate@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    There‘s a word for that „Greedflation.“ This is what western car makers do. Luckily, the Cinese car makers grasp their chance and disrupt the market

  • bufalo1973
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    41 year ago

    “We can’t lower the prices, it’s impossible so soon”

    • Echo Dot
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      1 year ago

      It’s not on, it really isn’t, the Chinese shouldn’t be allowed to engage in the free market. They’re supposed to be the enemy.

      They should be sanctioned so that Western car makers can continue to put out vehicles for ludicrous prices, the way God intends.

        • Echo Dot
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know, I feel like it works on both levels really. There are actual people that think like that and it’s insane. The US trade war doesn’t really help, It paints China as the bad guy even though they’re only doing the same thing as every other country in the world.

          By all means demand China improves in areas which makes sense such as blatant copyright violation and human rights abuses but not this. Making cheap cars is hardly nefarious.

          • @Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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            61 year ago

            It depends on how it’s done. If the Chinese government is directly subsidizing the cheap cars then it’s a problem.

            Kind of like the US subsidizing farmers and then dumping the cheap corn on other countries such that their local farmers go out of business.

            • Echo Dot
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              41 year ago

              That’s capitalism. You don’t get to complain because someone else gets a better deal.

              China will always be able to produce cheaper products because the cost of living is lower there. But that is hardly a major revelation.

              • Nobsi
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                -31 year ago

                You forgot the uyghurs and slave labour…
                Convenient.

                • Echo Dot
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                  1 year ago

                  Yes I did, I mentioned human rights abusers, it’s right there in the comment that I made, I can still see it.

                  I find it’s always a good idea to actually read the comments before getting angry about them.

            • @buzz86us@lemmy.world
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              21 year ago

              they have dropped subsidies, and the companies making terrible product, and those with unsustainable business models are collapsing… Weltmeister, Lepin… all defunct.

      • @penquin@lemm.ee
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        401 year ago

        I get your sarcasm, but Chinese products are life savers in 3rd world countries like mine. My brother bought a Chinese pickup truck for $3500 brand new. American trucks are at least 10 times that. People there work a whole month for $500 - $900. No one can and will never afford that shit. Same goes for other products like cellphones, computers… Etc. an iPhone there costs $1200 - $1400 and a Chinese one costs $300 max and it does the job no problem. People in those countries love China.

  • Altima NEO
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    141 year ago

    Yeah but where can I get these cheap Chinese EVs? I’ve never seen any for sale in the States

  • Hyperreality
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    651 year ago

    Chinese EVs are being sold at a loss of up to 35k per car:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/business/nio-china-electric-vehicles.html

    The Chinese government is subsidising their car industry, so they can engage in dumping, and decimate our car industries. When our domestic car industries are dead, they’ll raise prices. It’s like Amazon or any other scummy megacorp that kills local businesses.

    This being said, it’s hard to feel sorry for companies who also receive plenty of government subsidies and tax breaks, broke the law on emissions testing and likely killed a lot of people because of it, and refused to innovate or lower prices out of sheer greed.

    • @Squizzy@lemmy.world
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      11 year ago

      I truly don’t care if China destroy the car industry, it’s fucking ridiculous how expensive some basic shit is. In my opinion if you introduce a feature into your cars, you have ten years before it should become standard.

    • @cyd@lemmy.world
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      -11 year ago

      China is using subsidies to accelerate the green transition, exactly like the US is doing with the “Inflation Reduction Act” and other initiatives.

    • @sir_reginald@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      a comment in the article you linked says this better than I ever could:

      This whole narrative about alleged “subsidies” to Chinese EV makers and them “losing $35,000 per vehicle” is pure propaganda. Firstly, that company - Nio - is a relatively new one and it is still ramping up its production. A year ago when they were not selling EVs yet but invested a lot in R&D it could be said that they were losing infinite amount of money per vehicle - because infinity is what you get from dividing by zero. Both this logic and this math are erroneous. Tesla was losing money for years even after it started making and selling its cars.It kept going by taking money from investors in exchange for shares. That is exactly what the Chinese EV companies do. So secondly, those are not “subsidies” but investments, even if the money comes from Chinese government entities. This article states itself that local governments take stock in companies in exchange for investment - exactly the same thing Tesla investors did.

      The article also talks about BYD, a more established manufacturer than Nio, that is making profits selling electric cars.

    • @zurohki@aussie.zone
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      501 year ago

      Selling at a loss is how you build volume and reach the economies of scale that drive down costs.

      If you fiddle around half-heartedly putting out small numbers of EVs, you’ll never come close to competing with a company that puts out over a million a year. A lot of automakers still aren’t willing to commit, and they’re whining about the position they chose to put themselves in.