Death, taxes and this post on Lemmy
i just saw this for the first time and it brought me joy
Since Steam stops working on Win7 in january I was forced to update the OS and I went with Ubuntu since the newer windows seem like plain garbage and spyware. Installing the OS was a huge hassle and getting DayZ to run on it wasn’t without an issue either but it works now and the performance seems to be about the same. I only use the Linux machine for occasional gaming so it’ll do but I’m not sure if I could daily drive it. Everything seems to need you to do something in terminal which I understand nothing about and aren’t interested in learning.
Installing it was a hassle? May I ask how? In my experience it’s windows that’s a hassle to install. The non-descript error messages, it randomly rebooting like 6 times during installation was pretty jarring, it takes ages even for an NVME drive.
On Linux it’s generally next next username password next next and we’re done. Maybe on a laptop you’ll need to install WiFi drivers manually if it’s a crappy Broadcom WiFi adapter, but that’s not been an issue for years I don’t think.
And as for needing to do stuff in terminal I don’t really see that either. Everything seems to be accessible in the GUI, I can’t really think of any normal task that requires the terminal
Every time I tried installing, it failed in some new way. It wasn’t consistent so I had no idea how to troubleshoot it. It wasn’t asking which hard drive to install it onto, the installer was being extremely slow and unresponsive, the non-safe graphics option wasn’t working at all… I basically just had to abort the installation and start again like 10 times. What finally made it work was putting a different version of Ubuntu on the boot USB and using a different USB port and stick along with the safe graphics istallation. Even now it’s still giving me some TOCBLOCK error on boot, but everything seems to work fine anyways.
I can’t really think of any normal task that requires the terminal
This was the quide for installing drivers for my wifi adapter for example. Maybe there is easier way but each one I found needed you to use terminal. Even the manual that came with the wifi stick.
You may be more interested in the Steam Deck, a ready-to-go Linux gaming system that doesn’t require terminal proficiency. Just turn it on and play like a Nintendo Switch.
I don’t feel like buying yet another device when I already have a decent gaming rig. I’ve got a PS4 too but I never use it because I prefer using a mouse and keyboard.
windows 11 able to play games that linux distros cant*
Only because the publisher or developer specifically don’t want their games played on Linux. And it’s mostly because of anticheat
Yeah, same story like beeper and apple
Thats awsome
I wonder if they did these tests using ray tracing or not. On my AMD 7900xt in Cyberpunk, ray tracing under linux is practically unusable levels of performance compared to windows .
radv is gradually catching up with amdvlk in terms of rtrt perf. could be worth using amdvlk for raytacing for now, though
Safe bet, they didn’t. Seeing they’re talking about the ROG Ally and Lenovo Legion Go.
I’ve heard that Linux’s task scheduler is just much better than windows’, so it kinda makes sense that all would beat Windows.
A scientific judgement for sure.
I’m not deep on how the core of an OS works, but to my understanding, the kernel of linux should be more robust and reliable, shouldn’t it always be performing better than windows on the same hardware?
Where could I read information on the things that hinder performance on linux, does anybody have any educational resources?
On Linux, you run windows programs through wine, which is an additional layer that can theoretically slow down the program.
Also, windows supports certain constructs like io completion ports or WaitForMultipleObjects that historically haven’t been emulated efficiently on Linux since it lacked comparable primitives, although those specific ones have been greatly improved in recent years with io_uring and FUTEX_WAIT_MULTIPLE.
There have been similar issues with direct3D since wine used to have to emulate it in OpenGL, but with vkd3d, wine has more opportunities to efficiently implement the d3d apis.
Basically wine being slower was the norm until quite recently.
Thanks to the one crazy guy valve contracts making proton… It’s crazy how his work basically made gaming on Linux a thing. But yeah the other major thing, which you mentioned, is games/game engines using directX9, directX10 and directX11 (the windows 3d graphics libraries) have their API/rendering calls mapped directly to Vulkan. Those APIs were easier to use but from my understanding (I’m no graphics expert) didn’t have the ability to use the full potential of the hardware, and basically had a single channel/thread to the GPU. DirectX12 and Vulkan are much more difficult to use, and some games have used them horribly such that DX11 performs better than DX12, but a good implementation can take advantage of multichannel/multithreaded communication to the GPU allowing much faster and efficient data transfer. They allow the engine programmer to have much more control of the hardware. So vkd3d/proton gives that massive performance impact by mapping the graphics calls from an older API to a newer one. I have not looked into how it’s implemented but it’s basically magic. This was the main reason why wine kinda sucked for gaming before proton.
The Windows scheduler is actually pretty decent, it’s been a few years since I looked into it but I think Windows soft-real time scheduling was better than the one Linux used, though idk if games even use that.
The thing holding Linux back, mostly just for online games with anticheat, is anticheat developers reluctance to port to Linux. I believe do to the differences between users pace and kernel space on Windows VS Linux makes bypassing the anticheat on Linux much easier, or the anticheat can use the same tricks that it does on windows.
I still can’t get anything to run consistently in Linux after 10 years, and many, many distros. Timber born and Raft currently never open, no matter what. I a huge Linux user but the gamin experience has always been so finicky for me and no matter how much I try it’s still unattainable. And even when they run its with a lot of configution and tinkering unless it has native support. I have no issue with that but I’m so frustrated my experience with this seems so diffent than what everyone else is having. I want to delete my windows partition and it still feels so far away.
Nvidia GPU?
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I’d be happy to help if you’d like I can play 90% or more of my library on Linux. Basically, if its in steam it’s a cake walk. I recommend something like Mint cinammon or pop_os all you need is proton really. I can’t run games with certain anti cheat like tarkov cause the anti cheat devs don’t support Linux
Running mint right now, went back to basics after a stint with majaro. I appreciate the offer but for now the windows distro stays and every few months I will try again. I know so many people have such a seamless experience. That is what makes it way more frustrating.
Damn, I was thinking about switching but I play alot of Timberborn.
this game is actually fun? what would you compare it to?
It’s Rimworld mixed with Sim City in an amusement water park.
( •_•)>⌐■-■
It’s also technically a post apocalypse setting.
thanks im gonna try sexing with it
I play quite a bit of timberborn, worked just fine. Had some sound issues but changing to proton experimental fixed them.
I’ve got >500hours in Timberborn on Ubuntu. Runs flawlessly and never had an issue.
YMMV of course but I was playing Timberborn just the other day on Mint, on an Nvidia card, through Heroic. Proton seems to have been a gamechanger. I have just made my first steps into switching my daily driver myself. I may have been lucky but all the games I have wanted to play have worked so far. I also have a Steam Deck, which is what has encouraged me that it may be possible.
Heroic
This. While the experience for Gaming on linux is still not perfect, or as easy as install and play, Heroic is a good start. It still requires configuration and many hidden configs are not always obvious for the user, but I managed to run every game I threw at it flawlessly so far. All AAA games, and games from 2000 (Hitman, C&C games, Jazz Jackrabbit etc…), GoW, Cyberpunk, Hogwarts, etc. On a RTx 2070.
Between Steam, Lutris, and Heroic I can run every game I’ve tried on Linux.
What have you been doing. Cause for me it’s just install steam enable proton and install pretty much any game on my library. Or install lutris login to my accounts and play epic games / gog games. It literally just works
I know this is a very common experience, but for me it fails. The list is too long but belive me I’ve tried it. It’s probably some weird driver issue or some thing I use for x y or z that conflicts. Who knows.
Let me know when you get Witcher 2 to run on Linux. With some tinkering and magic settings, it can run. But it crashes so often it is bordering unplayable, using several different versions of Proton in Steam and Pop! Os.
I don’t own it but according to protondb it has native support for Linux
That’s fine. But it crashes constantly on Linux, rarely on Windows. Point being that not all games run fine on Linux.
What do the performance metrics look like for the games that won’t run on Linux?
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(They were not serious)
That’s the point they were trying to make. It was a facetious question.
About the same as Spiderman 2 or Ghost of Tsushima on Windows.
you mean the rootkits that won’t run on Linux?
When did ‘rootkit’ come to be a generic term for invasive software? Rootkits are a specific type of thing.
Because “rootkit” sounds more ominous and scary than “kernel level anticheat” and the communities complaining about such things aren’t known to keep hyperbole to a minimum. Gotta push that FUD.
This article for instance, using language that insinuates a huge gap in performance between the Linux distros and windows, when it’s a 6% difference between the best and the worst, on one set of hardware.
If it has kernel level access and can run arbitrary code, that’s a rootkit.
It’s absolutely valid to call these systems rootkits.
Anticheats that run in the NT kernel may as well be described as rootkits, especially as they aren’t transparent about exactly what they’re doing. Then there’s the question of what happens if they get compromised
Vanguard, BattlEye, EasyAntiCheat, Ricochet, etc… all run in the Windows Kernel and most, if not all, have the functionality to run arbitrary code, so might as well class them as rootkits.
Anyone have a good explanation on ‘Frame Time’? This is the first time I’ve heard of this term and after some quick googling I feel like I’m not understanding why it’s worth caring about.
I’m not surprised at the confusion, because they’re using it… not wrong, but very confusingly.
Frame time is literally the time to render a frame. So you’d expect that to be a number of miliseconds per frame and so for lower to be better.
But they’re not looking at frametimes, they’re looking at 1% lows and expressing that in fps, not in frametimes. So yeah, confusing.
For the record, the reson why the term is becoming popular is that there are now widespread visualizations that will give you a line of your frametimes in a graph so you can see if the line is flat or spiky. You’ve probably seen it on the Steam Deck or performance analysis videos or whatever. The idea is that all frametimes being consistent is better than high fps but low 1% or 0.1% low. So stable 60fps can look better than spiky 90fps and so on.
It’s how long it takes the system to render the next frame. High frame times are no good. Equates to lower average fps, and poor player experience. You also want stable frame times. This equates to smooth gameplay and less “stuttering”. Anything under 20ms is considered good. 10ms and less is great. Anything over 50ms will be perceived by the player in a negative way.
I interpret it as the time taken to render a frame. Unlike FPS which is basically a moving average (or rather 1 divided by the average frame time), frame time is a single data point. Collecting frame times allows you to do things like compute the median or, in this case, the lowest 1% of the frame times. That can give you a better idea of how smooth performance appears to the player, and what the worst-case performance is like.
the linux wars!! lets see who wins. also, its a friendly war, microsoft loves and will support linux
It’s probably more cost effective to run Azure Services on Linux machines than Windows machines.
Microsoft has a how to for Installing Linux on the desktop.
They… accepted that they’re not killing Linux, yet. Back in the 2000s, before Azure, they felt quite threated by Linux and ‘Microsoft Linux’ was a joke. The then-CEO Steve Ballmer called Linux a ‘cancer’.
I keep hearing and seeing from seemingly everyone that Linux gaming is better basically every month, how it keeps improving and stuff (like the article here)
But for me personally it never did in the last 5 years, whenever I try to step out if emulation and back to windows exlusove games? Its like 5 bullet Russian roulette, if it works at all and doesn’t stop working for inexlicitly no reason
What are yall doing to actually make things work somewhat reasonable (default lutris, proton, or ge has never even renowtly worked how well for me, at all)
Modern Linux kernel and steam with proton, and in a few instances lutris with wine. Unless it has anticheet, it’ll play pretty well.
what black magic are you using to make them work
AMD 7600x and 6700xt, Debian 12… proton, wine, keyboard and mouse? Been using it no problem with cyberpunk and Starfield for a few months now. Play Diablo 4 and overwatch with my kids. Been gaming on Linux for almost 4 years now. It HAS come a very very long way since the steamdeck was launched though. Proton and lutris are the glue that hold it all together.
idk what kinda glue you are thinking about, but it aint the one im seeing gtx 1660 super here and distro agnostic for me, same problems all around
cyberpunk, a slideshow at best, tried several times and several configs diablo 4 (got it from a friend), never launched, cause battlnet never works
I have over 200 hours in cyberpunk on Linux. The gog version is a little bit more work to setup the steam version. If you have it on steam, and have steam installed natively (not inside wine) it should work assuming you have the correct GPU drivers installed.
I’ve always had weird, buggy shit with Nvidias Linux drivers. AMD is pretty great though.
You could try an open source game like xonotic that supports Linux to test as well.
I’m convinced it’s my AMD graphics that are making things so easy for me. I have had no issues at all with their drivers. Ran arch with no issues for a few years, now Debian for a few months. Have never had an nvidia card.
I have been using an all AMD system for years on Linux and haven’t had any issues. Some coworkers with Nvidia graphics said it was a nightmare. So it must be the AMD drivers
The only issues left with Windows-Only games is their crippeling-for-purpose anti-cheat code. Anything else works better on Linux.
So the question is whether to support those BDSM anti-cheat games, or get a better gaming experience.
For me default proton “just works” usually. But I play a lot of indie games
It actually works flawlessly, except for those windows only games of those ones with anticheat bullshit. Especial on AMD, as all the drivers are baked into the kernel and it’s literally plug and play.
Testing done on specific hardware and not a broad spectrum of machines is as relevant as asking one person their political opinion and saying that applies to their whole nation.
Well sure but rephrased it’s just “Three Linux distros that embarrass Windows 11 in gaming performance.” which to me, is equally interesting.
article title: windows DEAD LAST!
also in the same article: “… When it comes to FPS, the overall leader in testing was Nobara Linux, with Arch Linux and Pop!_OS trailing by 1–5%. Windows 11, however, was only 6% behind Nobara Linux. So, **there isn’t a massive performance delta here, **”
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gaming and the abundance of software and third party support and tutorials on windows is why I haven’t taken the dive to linux yet. So yeah, if linux does gaming as well or better my migration is more and more likely.
I’m gonna be that Linux bro and tell you to switch 😁 I made the full switch earlier this year and I’ve been amazed by how good proton is. There’s only been one game I couldn’t get to run until I did by installing some Microsoft VC runtime. Give it a shot! You just might be pleasantly surprised as I was.
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is the point of article not to stroke the ego of the Linux absolutists that have some weird chip on their shoulders when it comes to video games?
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No it hasn’t, some games run better on the hardware tested when running Linux, some games don’t work at all on Linux whereas all games run on Windows.
Come back when they test multiple machines running various hardware and when they compare the experience setting up said machines to actually run the games.
You’re exactly the person this article was written for, someone who wants their opinion reinforced because they won’t take the time to analyze the data presented.
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“on that one specific machine.”
You’re missing that part from your premise and it’s the important one.
Notice how they didn’t use one with an Nvidia GPU… Or even hardware released this year either…
Edit: Aaaw, I made you angwy and you downvoted me :(
The Nvidia drivers perform fine generally but it would be nice to verify it.
It’s funny because you say that and at the same time it’s the first question asked when someone has a hard time gaming on their Linux setup, “Nvidia GPU?”, even in this thread it’s come up.
The issue isn’t performance, it’s Nvidia’s unstable drivers.
E: fuck me, are people stupid? Performance and stability are not the same thing.
Performance on Nvidia cards on Linux is fine. The issue is the bizarre issues you have like multi-monitor weirdness or adaptive refresh rate not working properly. Nvidia’s drivers need kinks worked out but they aren’t slower.
You realise that not having access to stable drivers is a performance issue because it means games don’t run properly or at all?
“The issue isn’t my bike, it’s the bent wheels on it!”
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Irrelevant to someone that wants their game to run.
I didn’t say otherwise. We were talking performance, not stability, that’s why I said the word performance, then said Nvidia’s drivers were unstable.
Understand? Performance means performance and stability means stability. I can appreciate that might be hard to grasp, but they’re different words for a reason, and that reason is they mean different things.
I don’t know why I bother talking to morons on Lemmy who deliberately misinterpret what people say and use that as a gotcha. You’re not smart for using a straw man argument.
Nvidia needs to sort their shit out.
Nvidia isnt so bad if you’re on a stable distro it supports and using x(though Ive heard wayland support is improving for it). On rolling or more cutting edge distros where the kernel is likely to change every few weeks and major DE versions might ship that proprietary driver will hurt.
That said while amd is generally better on linux for this reason it’s worth mentioning that it has two huge flaws:
1.Its not perfect like the fans mention. As someone who owned a 3500u and 6650u apu life under amd isnt always sunny. 3500u had a kernel regression for about half a year that prevented the cpu from idling and rembrant apus have an issue where the whole system locks up which seems to come and go(feels like it’s gone for now but Ive thought that before). Desktop gpus are better, but they still did suffer from driver bugs. I think my experience with my 5600xt was better than windows fans had for that generation, but it was not entirely stable and I did suffer from many kernel panics and system freezes. A few mesa and kernel releases fixed that, but it wasnt perfectly smooth. In addition to that no hdmi 2.1 support which is fine unless you game using your nice oled tv because no tvs come with display port. Proprietary drivers do allow for supporting some of the more obnoxious features that arent allowed.
- It can vary gpu/cpu to gpu/cpu for how fresh your software will need to be, but generally newer hardware needs very new kernels just for basic support and it may need a few more releases to get stable or good. So if you want to just sit back with ubutnu LTS or debian you need to make sure the release cycle lines up with support for your hardware. The other end of the spectrum is that being on a bleeding or cutting edge distro can mean stability issues and regressions. So for example a month or three ago fedora pushed a kernel update that had a regression where my 6800xt gpu wouldnt clock up when utilized so gaming framerates tanked and retroarch shaders were choking up. I could just use the old kernel but I had to make sure that the kernel updates didnt bump it away. Also an entire point release and several releases after that before the bug was fixed.
So while there is a lot of pro amd comments in the linux world and its worth acknowledging that the open source drivers are generally good it’s not perfect and the grass isnt always greener.
Just from that comment we can see how far from mainstream adoption Linux is for gaming… You really need to want to understand how things work to fix things that might not work natively. Not every gamer wants to be super knowledgeable about computers, most just want to play games. Heck, I’m very good with computers and I know that what little time I have to play games I don’t want to spend trying to make them work…
1 day cannot pass without this article getting reposted across various communities.
I swear people just scroll through lemmy, see a post they like and then think to themselves, “this is cool, I should post this on lemmy!”
As someone on Linux, and who thinks performance is generally slightly better on my machine after switching, I totally agree. This post has been old for a while now. Get some more data and then post that new thing or stop posting it.
It’s okay. Lemmy isn’t a wiki. Content is organized temporally. Imagine these conversations as bar conversations (just because one group had a conversation one night, doesn’t mean another group can’t repeat it the next). If you are annoyed that the algo keeps giving you the same stuff, sort by All and New Comments and you’ll find niche communities to subscribe to.
Yeah, these are getting really annoying.
A Lemmy option to hide posts of links already red in another post would be neat. (First time I see this one though)
