CDs are just digital files plus waste. Vinyl is a musical ritual.
Vinyls break easily and sound kinda meh, even with decent equipment. CDs have fairly good quality and are easy to store and handle. Honestly I get why people like vinyl, big discs are fun and tinkering with analog stuff is its own hobby, but when it comes to collecting I prefer CDs.
I like old vinyl because these are my grandparents’ and parents’ records which I have heard myself a few times in my childhood.
I don’t get recording digital data, then writing it to an analog medium which is then sold 15 times more expensive than it historically was.
No one can take the music on your CD’s from you. I bought loads if sings and albums from Google Music and they are all gone now
No one can take my flacs either. 🐷🧇
RIP
🐷🧇
😢
This is a reason to avoid DRM, not digital files in general.
(My condolences for being bitten, though.)
Google Music had DRM free downloads, so the DRM wasn’t the problem - it was that they didn’t download them before Google Music was shuttered.
CDs are digital files plus ownership.
Once you download a music file, nobody is taking it away from you.
And CDs can have DRM just like any other digital media.
No, a CD that carries the actual CD logo cannot have DRM. It is true that the music industry has often pushed ‘enhanced’ formats that look like CDs that do; SACD, for example.
Ownership is different to possession, and I want to actually own my music, not just possess the files.
No, a CD that carries the actual CD logo cannot have DRM.
Is this true? If so, I’m guessing it’s purely due to limitations in the hardware, rather than lack of will? I can’t imagine CDs coming out these days and not having some sort of DRM.
Nintendo was able to figure it out with GameCube games…
You can definitely put DRM-protected content onto the physical CD media - that is exactly what SACD is. But then it isn’t an audio CD, even if it will play on a regular CD player. Search for “nonstandard or corrupted” on the Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio .
It’s my understanding that only conforming CDs can carry the CD logo. It’s usually on the case, not the disc itself, and it isn’t always there, particularly when the case isn’t a jewel case. All the same, I think that most things that look like CDs are conformant.
Yeah, but I imagine that CD logo is a “stamp of quality” of sorts that tells you that the disc inside fits an agreed upon, unified set of standards. And one of those standards is “no DRM.”
Point was, if that standard was created or updated today, there’s no shot that they wouldn’t require DRM.
Maybe I’m wrong though and that’s not at all what the CD logo means.
That’s true, but they did already try it and it didn’t catch on. There’s a section about it on the Wikipedia page (“Copy protection”).
That section also mentions that Philips stated that these discs couldn’t have the CD logo on them. Since Philips was behind SACD, together with Sony, you’d think they wouldn’t have imposed that restriction on themselves if they had the choice.
I download my MP3 and FLAC files and then I own them and play them on any device I want.
There certainly are some services where you can legally download MP3 and FLAC files. Bandcamp, for example. If you download your music like that then, yes, you do own it.
But I’m not aware of anywhere you can get music from the major music labels nowadays (Amazon used to sell MP3s and so did Google Play Music, but neither does any more). If you do, I’d love to know.
On the other hand, you can still - although it’s getting harder - buy CDs for major label artists and then you own the music (that copy of it).
True, CDs are the most reliable way to get the digital file.
7digital is a site where I’ve bought major label music and get the files. If it’s not on bandcamp it’s often on 7digital. They don’t have everything though.
Thanks for the tip - they do seem to have a lot. I had assumed that the labels had made it unprofitable for that type of service to exist. I guess maybe it’s simply that there is more money to be made from streaming.
Amazon does still sell digital music files, you just need to find the “digital music” section in Movies, Music and Games if that link doesn’t work for you.
But you’re right about google music, it got turned into youtube music and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t allow purchasing and downloads. I’d imagine apple also still lets you buy music, but I’ve never actually used them before and don’t plan to start now.
vinyl is cool, but cd is the digital recording, mastered in a known manner, to a high degree. It’s the most consistent form of product you will get from music. Plus it’s a physically collectable thing. And it’s cheap.
I’m not made of money over here.
If you’re going for quality, you’d just buy the flac file though
If you’re going for quality, you’d just buy the flac file though
Audio CDs are also lossless, often cheaper than buying the FLAC files, and can be extracted to FLAC files. Only reason to buy FLAC is if you want the convenience of not buying a physical product and the quality of said physical product.
Maybe I should have written a longer comment to elaborate on what I meant. What I meant to say is that if your primary concern is sound quality rather than the experience physical media gives you, I would assume a flac file would be a more popular option due to its convenience.
CDs often ship WAV audio to my knowledge. Doesnt really make sense to encode anything down anyway. Unless you’re shipping a box set in a CD maybe? Even then 320kb MP3 is basically imperceptible to even the most astute listeners.
I didn’t mean to imply CD stores sounds files of worse quality, only that if you aren’t after the experience vinyl provides, digital files is a more convenient form of media.
i mean yeah. But if you’re buying an album already. CDs are really easy to find used for like 10 bucks or so. You can buy them new for only a few bucks more than the digital price. It’s a great option if you want something physical.
You can still rip CDs straight to wav and dump em to a media player in like 12 minutes though. It’s basically free.
I’m not made of money
Capitalism: “Oh, yes, you are.”
the thing that capitism doesnt understand about me, is that i don’t care about money.
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Don’t forget digital music stores like Qobuz and www.bandcamp.com.
Artists get more money when you buy their music outright instead of stream it.
Bandcamp was bought by Epic Games, who fired half the staff and sold off the remainder to some kind of nebulous music licencing platform. I wouldn’t cheer them on much longer, I see dark days ahead.
Seriously? Fucking hell, that’s depressing.
It isn’t owned by epic games anymore, it was bought by Songtradr. https://www.songtradr.com/blog/posts/songtradr-bandcamp-acquisition/
Yup that’s the “nebulous music licencing platform” I was referring to
No it’s not. The iTunes Music Store is available in the majority of countries in the world. Plus there are other services that cover some of the other countries. Vanishingly few people can choose only a CD.
You don’t own the music you license through iTunes though.
Pretty sure it’s DRM-free.
Only since 2007…
EMI was the first domino to fall after Job’s famous Thoughts on Music open letter.
The other labels followed suit shortly after.
That open letter will be old enough to vote in less than ten months.
No, I’m certain 2007 was just six or seven years ago, right? Right?
You don’t own the music you buy on a CD either. You are buying a license to the music and physical storage of it. If you want you can burn your iTunes songs on a CD and you’re in the same situation.
You own a copy of a copyrighted material. The copy is yours. No DRM, no remotely removing your ability to use it.
You own your own hard drive. That copy of an iTunes song is yours. No DRM, no remotely removing your ability to use it.
No DRM, no remotely removing your ability to use it.
Yet.
How is that different from iTunes?
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I am aware, but unless you’re saying iTunes doesn’t sell pop music in most markets, it’s not really relevant.
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You completely missed the point of what you are replying to. The point isn’t that you SHOULD buy music from online sources instead of CDs. The point is that CDs aren’t “the only way to buy a digital popular music in most countries.” They are directly contradicting a point someone else made by saying CDs are not the only way to buy digital popular music in most countries. They even specifically said popular music, not whatever niche music some random person is into. They also mentioned iTunes because it services 119 markets, which directly counterpoints the statement about being available in most countries. They never advocated for iTunes like you imply.
It’s almost like you lack reading comprehension. “Soms people here on Lemmy are even more insufferable than any other social media.”
I think you can use iTunes as a catch all for sales of digital files, including bandcamp. As opposed to a physical disc or a subscription. FWIW I was just looking this up on the RIAA website and you can run reports by year or year over year comparing media options. It’s really interesting to see which year each format peaked. Eg 8track 1978, cassette 1989, CD 2000, digital file 2012. It doesn’t include limewire /napster (non-revenue) so the unit counts are a bit depressed. I wish it included pre-iPod mp3 players and blank CD sales.
Many people don’t listen to local music or pop music.
I was responded to a comment about the availability of pop music.
And out of everything available iTunes is your first choice too?
Yes, the largest digital music store is, naturally, the first one I searched for availability numbers for (119 markets).
I don’t really understand the rest of your rant.
The music on iTunes is compressed and doesn’t sound as good as a CD does.
Not to mention they can revoke your access to your music on iTunes. No one can take away your CD unless they break into your house!
Even a human with very good hearing and knowledge of how a song is supposed to sound cannot tell the difference between CD quality audio and 256k AAC like iTunes uses.
Don’t believe all the nonsense audiophiles keep spewing out. Human ears suck. If we hadn’t had our giant brains to compensate, we’d be practically deaf.
This. People assume that because it’s “compressed” it must sound flatter, less dynamic, or just vaguely worse than uncompressed audio, despite the fact that audio compression specifically uses psychoacoustic models to remove the bits of data that our human ears and brains cannot hear to begin with.
Expectation bias is a helluva drug.
Even FLAC is compressed. Which is how I procure my music because I have the storage space.
FLAC is compressed, but unlike lossy codecs like AAC and MP3, FLAC is fully lossless. Lossy codecs delete information the authors believe you won’t notice, lossless compression keeps all the data and just tries to fit it in a smaller space. The original recording can be perfectly reproduced (taking into account sample rate and depth).
Yup, although that doesn’t stop some weirdos out there claiming that CDs sound better than FLAC.
psychoacoustic models
Sometimes they mess up. Actually only ever noticed it once and that was years ago CD vs. ogg vorbis at full quality level, this track. Youtube version is even worse, it seems (from memory): The guitars kicking in around 30 seconds should be harsh and noisy as fuck like nothing you’ve ever heard, they’re merely distorted on youtube.
Then lossy codecs are a bad idea for archival reasons as you can’t recode them without incurring additive losses – each codec has a different psychoacoustic model, each deletes different stuff. Thus, FLAC definitely has a place.
Killer samples do happen, sure but vorbis at Q9? I’m highly dubious. That track in particular just sounds badly recorded to begin with. If you have that same version in FLAC i would be interested to see some ABX test results or test it myself.
For archival purposes, though, I agree FLAC is the way to go.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I would guess that the fact that people aren’t all using some kind of standard-response reference headphones is probably going to have a considerably-larger impact on the human-perceivable fidelity of the audio reproduction than any other factor.
This is true. That said, I’ve seen people claim that nobody can tell the difference between lossless and 128kbps mp3, but that’s complete bullshit.
Though once you get above 192, it’s pretty indistinguishable.
Would really depend on the version of MP3. The first versions had some major issues with artifacts being introduced. People probably listened to that and concluded all compressed music must be shit. Later versions were much better, even though I would think 128k is probably too low and would be noticeable with some effort. I agree, starting at 192k and people can’t tell anymore.
Does anybody use MP3 anymore? I don’t really know to be honest.
Not to mention they can revoke your access to your music on iTunes.
iTunes got rid of DRM a decade and a half ago.
Sure but if you don’t have the song downloaded on your PC and they remove it from your library you can’t redownload it.
Most people aren’t backing up the songs they buy on iTunes.
Thank goodness they’ll let you redownload your CD if it gets damaged…
I don’t agree. It depends how the song was ripped and how the original was mastered. I did so much A/B testing at the time and found I couldn’t tell the difference between VBR 256 AAC and the CD. 128k mp3 sounded worse, 320k mp3 is pretty safe, but there were a lot of improvements to LAME over the years so newer files sound better. The biggest difference is the mastering. Generally 1980s reissues of 1970s analog masters sound worst, 1990s is best, 2000s everything got remastered to make it loud and crush dynamic range. The only real innovation since is Dolby Atmos on Apple Music which really brings alive the promise of 1970s quadraphonic.
iTunes music store is not available in mainland China, which is 1/5 of the world’s population
Yes, but this is about what is available in most countries, not what is available in all countries. That still leaves 119 markets and 80% of the world’s population being available. Pretty sure that counts as “most.”
Also, the point isn’t about iTunes, it’s about alternatives to CDs for digital music. China likely has some online store to buy music, but I have no idea.
They do, maybe, but the streaming services often can’t get the original master so they play rerecordings of the songs
I just pirate it
To make the claim 80% of population has it you have to have the numbers, since South Korea doesn’t have it, a lot of African countries (just going down the list, Algeria, Angola, Benin, etc) don’t have it
It looks like half of the world doesn’t have iTunes music purchases
Internet access and existing devices would also play a role, but I don’t know a region like that to comment further
I’m glad I saved my CDs, as I was able to rerip them to FLAC and undo the mistake my juvenile self made of ripping to WMA. I still keep the CDs to play in my car from time to time
While I agree with you, I still want to be able to buy CDs.
I do miss caring about my CD collection. I still have them but I have nothing to play them on.
A whole $1.91!! Wow!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Just waiting for wax cylinders to come back
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I think of this clip every single time Chris Pirillo pops up in pop culture somewhere.
And I bet horse carriages outsold the Ford Model-T this year too
i wouldnt say vinyl is comparable to horse drawn carriages.
I’m a music collector and saw this coming. “Music” went from a product you buy, into a service you pay to gain access to. You don’t pay for music, you pay daddy Spotify for access to HIS music.
Vinyl has turned back into the only form of physical music collection.
Depends what you’re into. CD sales are more than alive and well in the kpop/jpop circles and there isn’t a lot of vinyl to find there.
I don’t buy vinyl, but I do buy CDs for albums I want. I have (what I believe are well-founded) trust issues with services supplying digital copies.
I will say I have bought some nice, normal mp3s in the past from Amazon. Those are fine. But generally I want the discs. I’m going to rip them immediately to mp3, and store the discs away, but I still want them.
I did recently buy a favorite band’s entire back catalog on CD, because I want to own a non-revocable copy of their work. Plus it felt pretty good “I give you money, you give me music on CD” felt way less icky than “I watch commercials for fraudulent products and services chosen by a nakedly hostile algorithm, evil megacorporation optionally pays you.”
I hate subscription services, for the cost of a Spotify subscription I can but one or two CD albums a month.
I buy a vinyl here or there but just to collect. I listen to my CDs.
I tried Spotify but it only has about 70% of the albums in my collection. I used to love google play music because you could upload your media and it would be included in your library.
I liked Google play too. I was not pleased when they moved to YouTube music and made accessing your own music a total pain in the balls.
Plex and plexamp is how I listen to music now.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check it out
Edit: It needed me to sign up with an email address and I saw it had in app purchases that put me off a bit. But when looking for that app I found Musicolet which looks pretty perfect, just a simple ad free music playing app without all the bollocks!
the in app purchases are mainly if you want to buy PlexPass which unlocks additional features. I bought the lifetime pass years ago when it was on sale for $75 so I can’t quite remember which features require plex pass. Its primarily for video but the music section with Plexamp on my phone and laptop is a nice little bonus.
Ever since the RIAA went after consumers with hefty lawsuits in the early 2000s, I didn’t buy music ever again.
I don’t really buy vinyl to listen to it, but for the larger cover art and liner notes
That is definitely something I loved about LPs. I used to have a big book of album cover art. I have no idea what happened to it unfortunately, but I used to pore over it. Liner notes are less of an issue with the internet, but the shrinking of art was a very unfortunate result of CDs.
I remember getting a copy of Jethro Tull’s “Thick as a Brick” that came with a whole-ass newspaper they made folded into the liner with lyrics and pictures. That’s something you can only do with vinyl.
Definitely. Similarly, Negativland’s album Escape From Noise came with both a bumper sticker and a booklet all about the history of Negativland.
The only vinyls I buy are from charity shops or because I love an album so much that I want it as a collection (I’d also buy the CD to actually listen to)
Yeah, I haven’t bought a new record in a long time, and one of my most prized albums is a 1970 radio-played copy of The Kinks “Lola vs. Powerman and the MoneygoRound” complete with the dates and times they played Lola."
Because CD is a medium for data shrinking in popularity and vinyl is a token of being cool growing in popularity, of course it does.
yeah, because if you buy something digitally, it will get stolen from you.
Vinyls are great, but I can’t copy them to my phone so I still have to buy a CD with it.
Such an amazing resource that was, not only did it have the albums available, but several different pressings, source media, and versions of each one. Something no commercial entity can come close to offering at any price.
It’s not true that I cannot copy my vinyls to my computer? Okay how do I do that then? It just has the red and white left and right cables going to an amp, and then my receiver. Kinda new to vinyls over here
Maybe try Google? As I said, I downloaded them I didn’t rip them myself. There was this person with the username “PBTHAL” that always had to best lossless vinyl rips, if you do a search that includes that name, you might find alternate download sources for them. I think they ran their own site where they posted all of their rips outside of what, but don’t know if it’s still there. They were also very thorough while explaining the process, equipment, cables, etc. for each and every rip. This person was really a perfectionist, and boy did it show. There were albums that they ripped and then refused to upload because they didn’t feel their rip was perfect enough.
Absolute fucking legend.
I even have FLACs of reel-to-reel versions of all Zeppelin albums, as well as, Bowie, Dylan, et. al. and they sound fantastic. Don’t ask me how it’s done. And given the pedigree of that website, these people took the ripping process incredibly seriously.
Haha nice, that’s an area of music collection as a hobby that I’ve never explored., and I can really appreciate that level of dedicstion. Thanks for letting me know, I’ll see if I can even find my type of metal on there
You might be able to find some dedicated metalheads ripping vinyl, but my experience was that it seemed to be done more with albums that were released prior to the rise of digital music. I feel like it makes more sense when the album was written and recorded with vinyl in mind, otherwise you’re taking a digital recording and putting it on a record so I’m not sure you’re going to get anything that sounds better by ripping the vinyl over just ripping the CD. If that makes sense.
I could be wrong though…
Yeah, and with the style of the few albums I do have on vinyl, the vinyl rexord sound kinda goes with the sound of their subgenre so I do enjoy the vinyl listening experience there, and they do sound different than on Spotify.
But when I own my own copy of an album, I want to remove it from Spotify and have my own copy of it on my own device. So if I’m just doing it to be able to listen to music that I paid for on vinyl on my phone when I’m not home in front of the turntable, then that’s good enough.
I notice now, some new vinyls on Bandcamp come with digital download, which is cool, but not if I bought it at a show.
There are usb turntables that let you rip your vinyl, but theyre usually not the highest quality turn tables. I like vintage tables because it adds to the atmosphere and there were fewer corners cut. You could probably get some separate equipment that would let your turn table talk to your computer.
TIL, thanks for pointing out the thing about quality. The table I’ve currently got sounds pretty nice (for never really having used anything else), so maybe I’ll check out ones with USB and at least keep it around for copying!
Well, there’s still RED and it has almost has vinyl rip for every famous album. I wasn’t a what cd member but RED has a huge collection. If you aren’t in music trackers anymore you should checkout RED
Yeah but it’s members only right? Frankly, I’m just too old and lazy and don’t care enough about that stuff anymore to go through a whole interview process and shit.
Do they have PBTHAL vinyl rips? Those were my favorite by far. That person really knew WTF they were doing.
Yeah but it’s members only right?
Yeah but what cd was a private tracker too right?
I’m just too old and lazy and don’t care enough about that stuff anymore to go through a whole interview process and shit.
Well, considering you were a what cd user, I think you can easily clear that, the wait for the interview is ridiculously annoying though. I had to wait for weeks for that.
Do they have PBTHAL vinyl rips?
I don’t know, have to check. I am just tired of the grind these days and just visit it when my friend asks for an album’s flac, or if I get freeleech tokens.
Yeah but I would need to “prove” I was a member, and it’s not like I still have any kind of evidence. In fact, I got super lucky to get into what in the first place as I just happened to have a screenshot of my OiNK title bar/ratio because I was messing with different CSS themes months/years prior. So when OiNK died, I was able to get into what pretty easily by showing that screenshot.
I have no such thing for what.
Yeah but I would need to “prove” I was a member
Idt you need to prove that unless they ask you specifically or you say it by yourself.
They don’t care what private trackers you are/were in as long as you pass the interview.
Right. I was able to skip the interview process for What because I was a member of OiNK and got lucky enough to find someone on reddit to send me an invite. The whole idea of interviewing to join a torrent site rubs me the wrong way and as I said above, I don’t really care about that stuff enough anymore to go through the hassle.
Do they have PBTHAL vinyl rips?
Yes, there is a collage of 578 pbthal rips
🤤
I still reminisce about my Oink ratio. Seeded Rosetta Stone on a university connection. Access to the school’s radio station’s library.
Probably the closest I’ll come to generational wealth, my grandchildren could have leeched music on my account and I’d still be positive.
What used to have staff picks where the download amount wouldn’t count negatively towards your ratio, but the upload amount would. When the Beatles remasters came out in 2008 or 2009, they put the entire collection on there, including the FLAC version. It was like 9+ gb I think, all of which was free in terms download amount. All it took was uploading for a few hours and I got my ratio into double digits. Basically made it so I never had to worry about it ever again.
Man do I miss what cd. I love RED. But what will always have a special place. I still have tons of merch I bought from what. T-shirts, coffee mug, koozie and so many rippy stickers. I still wear the shirts in my regular rotation
Aux cable from the out port to input on PC. Open recorder app and hit record. Save files. Upload to phone.
Why though? Just rip a CD or download the file. It’s better quality and less effort.
Well ya, but I thought the we were talking about ripping vinyl
I own a USB turntable with an ADC in it. It’s got a USB cable sticking out the back. I can rip vinyl to whatever digital format you want.
ION TT-USB master race!
you could get the vinyl rip, and listen them on your phone. idk whether it might sound the same like the exact vinyl but it’s better than Spotify if you have a decent headphones.
Ahh, I see. Setting sail to get something I’ve legitimately paid for IS an option. I’d still rather do it myself now that I’m finding out it’s an option with the right equipment
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Bass*
And vinyl*
My record player has a USB port…
Oh , mine doesn’t . I’m new to vinyl, and have less than 10 in my collection. My turntable was given to me by a friend.
So yours can copy to a computer via USB?
In theory, yes. I’ve never actually plugged it into a computer. It’s a Sony PS-LX300USB. Looks like you can pick one up used for less than $100. Might be worth it if you’re currently buying everything twice.
Sweet, thanks for the info! I’ll check it out
I have a audio technica AT-LP120-USB and it shows up in Audacity as an input source. my good speakers are hooked up to my livingroom PC + TV anyway, so playing back \ recording through audacity is the only way I’ve ever used the player.
Shiiiiit, okay I like that setup. My computer is connected to my tv which has ARC to th receiver, so I could totally do that too
I want to know what “other” is that is also clobbering CDs. Can’t say it’s streaming because it’s physical media. The article mentions that half a million cassettes were sold, but that doesn’t really answer the question. That “other” takes up a lot of space relative to CDs so I’m pretty curious.
I dug into the RIAA Source PDF the article references for what “other” means:
“Includes CD Singles, Cassettes, Vinyl Singles, DVD Audio, SACD”
Ahh, perfect, thanks, I genuinely appreciate it. I should have done that myself, shouldn’t I?
Eh, I have a lot of questions after articles, few are worth going down the rabbit hole for unless others show interest, no worries!
Not something I follow, but I recall reading that SACD is favored as being the highest-fidelity format generally available today (well, physical format…if you get something online, could be at whatever resolution you want).
I also recall reading – probably a more-meaningful factor than the actual physical constraints – that because the people who were buying them were rabid about audio quality and were annoyed by dynamic range compression, that the people mastering didn’t make hot recordings, so the media format avoided the “loudness war”.
googles
Hmm. Apparently not any more, at least not always:
At least for a little while SACD/DSD/24bit 96k releases were immune to loudness wars. However over the last 5 years or so I’m noticing a lot of high res releases, either remasters, remixes or new releases in high res have become victims of the loudness wars. The latest release of Electric Lady land is a prime example, horrible clipping and single digit DR ratings.
Why? These releases are not meant for portable headphone consumption why are they doing this? Why are supposedly trained audio engineers going along with this? Clipping and low DR ranges is a quantifineable error. People that buy high res releases will want full DR to play on their home audio system.
Why has this horrible practice infected what should be audiophile class recordings?
Honestly, digital music vendors should just include a dynamic range metric. Hell, let artists sell different versions of a song if they want. MP3 and I think all other popular formats have ReplayGain or equivalent, so one should be able to optimize the recording for reproduction accuracy rather than to just achieve a desired volume.
I’d assume it is for digital downloads.
If I am not purchasing LPs, I try to purchase MP3s/FLAC that I can copy and move around as I please.
Hm, digital downloads count as physical media? I might? be able to see the merit in that classification but I’m not entirely convinced.
I should comment AFTER I read the article.
If it is for physical sales only I would have to guess we are looking at things like cassette, USB drives and limited releases on other obscure formats like minidisk.
If you’re curious, nearly half a million cassettes sold last year, too, according to Billboard.
I’m more curious about who’s still selling music on cassette and who’s willing to buy it.
Only a few more years now till the retro sound of CDs comes back into style. I realize vinyl is a great and unique user experience with a specific timber, and more enjoyable to collect.
It’s kind of funny when you hear about the “analog warmth” when albums were being digitally mastered as early as the late 70s… And pretty much all re-releases are digitally remastered.
Only a few more years now till the retro sound of CDs comes back into style.
I liked the artwork on the disks themselves, and the feeling of opening a box, taking the disk out with that cracking sound, pushing a button on the drive and seeing and hearing it open, and then the sound of spinning when it’s being read.
Every bit as “warm” as vinyl in my opinion (born in 1996, so of course it is).
the retro sound of CDs
Your mistake is equivocating digital with analog. There is nothing “retro sounding” about CDs, you can download lossless digital versions of albums that are identical to what you’ll find on a CD.
I’m a professional audio engineer for a living, with a masters in the subject, it was sarcasm lol…
That’s technically true, but it is entirely possible CDs come back as a retro meat-space alternative to the corporate streaming dystopia we’re headed towards, or using CDs as a secondary retro proxy to feed nostalgia for production mastering trends of the 1990s-2000s era.
They already are! Some young artists are already doing those 2000s nostalgia CD releases for the kicks of having a physical medium.
However a big part of the marketing for vinyl has historically been “the sound is warm/high definition/whatever audiophile bullshit”. Anyone can achieve the same “warmth” with an EQ and some crackle/white noise (it works so well it’s a whole genre called lofi…), but the “vinyl sounds better” crowd will make the unfalsifiable claim that “it’s not the same”.
However, good luck claiming that “CDs sound different from FLACs”!In the end both vinyl and CD enjoyers are doing the same thing: enjoying music through personal and ritualistic manipulation of physical objects, that also come with nice album art. It’s just that some vinyl enjoyers are attributing some of that enjoyment to a largely made-up supposed “superiority” of sound (yes there are edge cases like “bad” remasters of songs originally released on vinyl, but is that really why anyone buys a turntable? Be honest.).
Retro sound of a CD?
They sound exactly the same as the digital releases. Only audiophiles up there own arses believe that they can hear a difference. Vinyls sound different but for obvious reasons.
I think you missed my sarcasm…
Edited to add: most CDs sound the same as their digital releases (assuming they had the same master which I’ve found isn’t always true), but occasionally you can actually get higher resolution, up to 96k/24 bit, which do sound different depending on your playback device.
Most of the difference is likely due to the nature of the DA filter being applied during playback, as I certainly won’t notice the noise floor between 16-24 bit, and any frequency difference is far far behind my range of hearing.
If you aren’t familiar with what I’m referring too, different DA implementations use varying filtering techniques, some have a slight roll off in the upper frequency range to improve the accuracy of transient response, while others use a flatter frequency response sacrificing the transient. Newer DAs from some manufacturers allow you to select which option you prefer. At double and quad sample rates this can largely become a moot point as any sacrifice to the frequency response is far out of the range of human hearing.
Fair play
CDs are already showing signs of a comeback! https://www.axios.com/2024/01/06/gen-z-cds-buying-collection
Lol, knew it was coming!
Exactly, although CD isn’t so much “retro” as it is a high frequency, high dynamic range audio recording. The only reason vinyl sounds “warm” is because their dynamic range & frequency is compressed so the needle doesn’t bounce out of its groove.
While it’s possible for a CD to receive a terrible master, if the mastering across formats is the same and other biases are eliminated (i.e. proper A/B testing) then CD will be objectively better sounding every single time.
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I think the mixing being different is likely dependent upon how good the engineer and mastering engineers are/were. I’d wager a fair number of bands releasing their albums to vinyl these days simply send over a very similar final master (maybe slightly less loud if you are lucky) to the vinyl cutting without much thought, because it’s the hip thing to do.
You are accurate, that they should ensure that low frequencies are mono compatible, but it is likely less of an issue for the style of music most associated with vinyl releases (indi etc), as stylistically they don’t tend to use stereo widening on low frequency instruments. Generally they have kick and bass down the center channel, or I suppose going mono style out of L/R if they are trying to be really old school, but that would likely take a completely different mix adding to production budget as I can’t imagine if would work to well on phones etc, which a lof of music is mix for unfortunately.
None of the artists I produce or mix for have requested it yet, but if they did I would send them to Fuller Sound Mastering as Michael has been around for ages and knows how to handle masters for vinyl.
Vinyl cutting also has an EQ curve offset that is printed into the vinyl itself, cutting the bass and boosting the high frequency, which is then re-applied by the players preamp circuitry, I believe it’s referred to as pre and de-emphasis. Funny enough my mastering DAC actually has this feature for some kind of old early CD technology for some lower resolution digital formats that had issues with noise and filtering and used a similar technology, I had never heard of this until I purchased this particular unit haha.
I agree that some cases are brittle but I’ve not seen a disc get fucked since I was a kid, when I couldn’t be bothered to put them back in the case.
I wanna go even further than retro. Gimme the hottest new single on wax cylinder for my phonograph…
I could get back into cassette tapes.
I love cassette tapes. I bought a bible on cassette at a resale store. Great way to get cheap tapes for recording over with music
Not me, I don’t miss rewinding them shits. CDs are still good though, I still buy those because you can’t go wrong by having it on the most highly-detailed and durable medium.
A few of the artists I follow put their new releases on cassette.
When my dad died, I told my brother, who is very difficult to deal with, to just take whatever he wanted from my dad’s vast collection of things and I’d deal with the rest. One of the things he took was an original Edison cylinder phonograph with a bunch of cylinders. I was okay with him taking it since I gave him permission, but what annoys me is that the phonograph was missing the stylus and he has never replaced it. It’s inside a wooden case with a lid, which he keeps closed, and the cylinders and the horn just sit next to it.
Why the fuck did he take it?
I don’t even have room for it, but if he’s not going to even display it properly, let alone get a single part that is needed for it to work, what’s the point? Just sell it if you’re not going to do anything with it.
I’m fairly certain most people who likes vinyl is because of the collection aspect. The leaflets and photos are nice to look at while you’re listening.
Vinyl, which tends to be pricier than the newer format, also far outstripped CDs in actual money made, raking in $1.4 billion compared to $537 million from CDs.
Vinyl is definitely overpriced these days. I do love all the art and care that artists seem to put into their vinyl releases, but typically I’m spending $30-$50 on a new vinyl release. But what am I going to do? Not buy that limited edition colored vinyl gatefold with art and lyric pages?
Well, you could always just download the music, art and lyrics from the internet, since it is the year of our lord 2024
Yeah, at this point you’re paying because it’s a collector item, or to support the artist, not for the actual content of the package.
I also just really like the physical media. Putting on a record is ritualistic at this point.
I view vinyls as collectors items, not something you actually listen to. I still buy CDs because I hate the idea of subscription services.
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I’d buy the vinyl as a collectors item, but the CD to upload on to my phone.
I buy mine from the merch stand at the artist’s show, they usually go for 20€-30€, even the limited edition ones.
I was thinking about investing in a vinyl player recently and was really sad to learn Vinyl is actually worse for audio quality. The standard thickness of the disk is a physical limitation for frequencies which means the sound gets “squished.”
It is true that vinyl records have a smaller dynamic range than CDs and digital streaming, but it can also be a blessing in disguise on account of the loudness wars. A lot of modern digital music since the 90s have been brickwall mixed so they can be played on devices with inferior speakers or headphones and still sound loud and punchy, but that same music will sound awful and distorted on proper hifi systems.
Because vinyl records have a (slightly) smaller dynamic range they have to be mixed and mastered separately from CDs and streaming, and some times that means the vinyl edition has the only properly mixed sound. And even if the vinyl version gets a brickwalled mix, then it is still slightly better than the brickwalled CD or stream versions simply because the dynamic range capability is lower, so the brickwall is smaller so to speak.
Anyway, even compared to non-brickwalled CDs or streaming, vinyl still holds it own on proper hifi systems, there is nothing wrong with the sound experience under the right circumstances, and it is that combined with the physicality which is the draw for most vinyl collectors I think. It is inconvenient, expensive and often times inferior (especially if you find scratched up used copies), but that is exactly the attraction. It makes listening to the music an event.
Most vinyl record collectors still listens to other formats, because of course in the car or some other place you are forced to, so it is not an either/or situation either.
I expect artists to record the media as they intended it to be heard, idgaf if you think it sounds better after you cut the limbs off of it.
There’s nothing stopping you still! I find the ritual of placing the disc and needle and turning it over halfway through is quite satisfying. It really makes me feel as though the music is more valuable and I’ll be more likely to actively listen rather than if I just put it on my phone with the tap of a button
STFU shill bot, I came here to shit on Vinyl not listen to you rant.
you seem to be a toxic moron
Sometimes you have to be very direct in order to shut down conversations with lemmings.
Not only that, but all the “better sound” arguments are just about all the mistakes in the audio, like scratches and bumps.
Digital has no mistakes, it will always sound the way it is intended.
But of course some times “the way it is intended” is not the preferable way (see my other comment to OP).
Yeah, vinyl is more about the haptic experience of putting that giant black disc onto the player and watching the needle slowly scrape away that 30-40 dollar item. It’s not about the sound quality. I think with listening to vinyl listening to music becomes more of an experience, because of all the manual steps involved. And with albums these days artists seem to put more effort into them then at the time the CD came around.
