Cool. Now all of Google Drive is blocked because one guy hosted a movie there for a few days.
All it would take is someone getting AWS blacklisted for an hour, that law would disappear like it never existed.
Piracy Shield blocked a Cloudflare IP address recently too
Hahahahaha
Unintended consequences - what are they going to do once 90% of connections are encrypted, include use of VPNs and encrypted DNS?
This is what they’re promoting.
Host your own encrypted DNS on a VPS in a non-compliant location, use a VPN to connect to it.
So many ways these idiots are cutting their own throats.
Also, let’s list the companies rather than say “Movie Industry”. Or let that be a link to a Wiki article listing all the companies and their holdings.
Fuck em all at this point. I go to maybe 2 movies a year, at most. And I’m cutting subscription services, down to 2 at this point.
As a guy from Russia, I must admit that vpns are not a big problem for censors. They can be easily blocked, including self-hosted ones by protocol detection. And DNS would not do much with IP and clienthello-based blocks. And most users are not enough tech-savvy to constantly switch to new protocols as old ones get blocked.
You have no rights in Russia.
VPNs can’t be categorically banned in the US without major first amendment issues. It’s not a huge technical issue, but unless the courts just throw out the Constitution (a risk that we’re seeing too much of, but still a meaningful bar to cross), there are huge legal barriers to doing so.
Your government doesn’t need to care about legal barriers because you have a dictator who can act unilaterally.
We are just a little behind trying to elect our new dictator…
But just for a day…
/S 🙄
You realize the tik tok ban bill is also going to ban the use of VPN’s right?
VPNs are not categorically banned in Russia either. Just 95% of them. Categorical ban is not actually required here. Government can just create licensing procedure and license only those VPNs, which follow “rules”. I do not see how this is different from ISP bans.
Entirely unconstitutional restriction of speech.
The government can shut down specific illegal acts, such as sharing other people’s intellectual property. They can’t ban tools or protocols, or do things that are functionally bans. There’s plenty of precedent of the government trying to restrict encryption and being shut down. Removing the ability to communicate securely is a first amendment violation.
By the same logic they should not be able to force ISPs to ban sites, but here we are. If they can enforce bans with ISPs, why can’t they do the same with VPN providers?
They may or may not be able to require ISPs to block specific sites. Piracy isn’t protected speech. It’s going to be a moot point because it’s not something that can get actually passed.
They cannot require ISPs to block VPNs. General tools for/access to the internet are protected speech. They could require VPNs that have physical servers in the US to block exits to specific sites (if the first part is valid), but that doesn’t do anything when it’s trivial to have exit nodes elsewhere and structure your service/corporate structure so the exit nodes are not subject to US jurisdiction.
CBaaS
Censorship Bypass as a Service, where your new updates are your [unique user ID].com
Let us manage your bypass for you! Payable in crypto or cash.
Even HTTPS-incapsulated? C’mon.
That most users won’t care enough - that’s true.
Https does not actually make difference here. You can still detect VPN usage by unencrypted clienthello, encryption-inside-encryption, active probing, obscure libraries that vpn protocol depends on, etc.
WTF? How are you going to look inside HTTPS?
Or is the word “encapsulation” (misspelled it first) unfamiliar to you in the network context? Maybe shouldn’t argue then?
obscure libraries that vpn protocol depends on
What? Are you an LLM bot? Answer honestly.
At first, please, be a little bit more patient and no, I am not a LLM.
All https traffic is https-encapsulated by definition. And you can look inside https just fine. The problem is that most of data is TLS-encripted. However, there is so-called “clienthello” that is not encripted and can be used to identity the resource you are trying to reach.
And if you are going to https-encapsulate it again (like some VPN and proxy protocols do) data will have TLS-encription on top of TLS-encription, which can be identified as well.
And about libraries: VPN protocol Openconnect, for example uses library gnutls (which almost no one else uses) instead of more common openssl. So in China it is blocked using dpi by this “marker”.
However, there is so-called “clienthello” that is not encripted and can be used to identity the resource you are trying to reach.
Yes, so how is it going to inform you that this is a VPN server and not anything else? You put your little website with kitties and family photos behind nginx on a hosting somewhere, and some resource there, like /oldphotos, you proxy to a VPN server, with basic auth before that maybe.
And about libraries: VPN protocol Openconnect, for example uses library gnutls (which almost no one else uses) instead of more common openssl. So in China it is blocked using dpi by this “marker”.
Ah. You meant fingerprinting of clients.
Banning everything using gnutls (which, eh, is not only used by openconnect) is kinda similar to whitelists.
Both applicable to situations like China or something Middle-Eastern, but not most of Europe or Northern America.
It is going to show the censor that you are trying to reach different banned websites (and, probably, google, facebook, etc), all hosted on your server. Your beautiful website is all fine, but in clienthello there is still google.
It is not necessary fingerprinting of clients, you can fingerprint the server as well. GnuTLS for this particular purpose is used only by Openconnect and that is just an example. This tactic is very effective in China and Russia and collateral damage is insignificant.
And various western anti-censorship organizations wrote articles, that such methods are not possible in Russia as well, but here we are. China’s yesterday is Russia’s today, American tomorrow and European next week. Here it all started in the exact same manner, by requiring ISPs to block pirate websites. And between this and blocking whatever you want for the sake of National Security (for example, against Russian hackers) is not such a long road as you think it is.
And when people demand living wages, or properly priced housing, or affordable food, that shit doesn’t matter right?
Fuck the movie industry.
They were doing just fine until people started to hate theatres and so their main source of ripping people off faded away.
Piracy websites should add a copy of the U.S. Constitution to their websites. Just slap a “/constitution.html” on the site.
Then, if the MPA succeeds, we can talk about how the U.S. Government is blocking access to hundreds/thousands of copies of the Constitution online.
LOL this should be done.
“/ConstitutionUSA.html”
Should be added.
Service Provider
Not Service Regulator
They shouldn’t have any knowledge of what websites people visit
Isn’t it fucking crazy that “industry demands ____” is likely to come to fruition, but “group of individuals demands XYZ” isn’t likely to change shit?
I demand better living conditions. We all demand an economy that doesn’t favor the rich. Not shit will change.
Companies “demand” shit and then just literally write the laws and hand them to legislators who pass them.
literally write the laws and hand them to legislators who pass them
Remember, they pass them without reading them.
No, but they do read their bank account statement before passing to see if the
bribecampaign donation was paid in time.
If your demands are being met you have power, if not you don’t have power.
Companies “demand” shit and then just literally write the laws and hand them to legislators who pass them.
Well, Congress only hears one side, they don’t read Lemmy to get the other side.
They have no respect for their constituency, because they think their constituency doesn’t care enough to engage them about it, and are ‘dumb’ enough to vote them back in the office again.
There was a study recently that showed legislators’ votes are affected by like .3% by input from constituents. I’ll try to find it again, but I can’t say I’m surprised.
There was a study recently that showed legislators’ votes are affected by like .3% by input from constituents. I’ll try to find it again, but I can’t say I’m surprised.
I’ve seen it (there’s always one person who shares the link whenever I make this kind of argument), but that study doesn’t take into account what would happen if a large percentage of the electorate that actually participated in the system were to start communicating with their elected legislators.
Right now there is so little interaction done by the electorate with their representatives.
I guarantee you that if a large amount of the voting electorate all started contacting their senators and house reps often, on different various issues, things would matter/change.
So my point still stands.
If you just sit at home reading Lemmy, they’re not going to take you seriously, and they’re not going to look out for your best interests, but instead they’re going to look out for their own best interests, which is usually getting money from corporations that they use to win elections, because they know they can still get re-elected even when they disrespect their electorate.
Fundamentally, they do what they do because they can get away with it, they are not policed by their voters.
TL;DR: If you don’t engage, nothing will change.
But during the trump years, those figures spiked big time. Especially with services like resistbot. The amount of form letters and shitty Republican legislators using my contact as some sort of consent on my part to join their fucking mailing lists?
Not to mention, these legislators are insulated from their constituents pretty effectively. If you do manage to get someone on the phone (I never did. Ever.), it’ll be an aide that might summarize the general tone of the calls and e-mails in a couple seconds worth of walk n’ talk. I mean…the system is rigged for people with money.
I get the feeling of wanting to change that. But I don’t think the system that has been further and further adulterated to those ends will ever just hand us the tools to upend that system. It was built this way.
I mean, how many times and how many ways do they have to display their wholehearted willingness to watch us all starve and slaughter countless of us in service of capitalism? They’ve made it abundantly clear.
But during the trump years, those figures spiked big time.
[Citation required.] [And define ‘big time’.]
Not to mention, these legislators are insulated from their constituents pretty effectively.
No, they are not. You can contact them directly.
But moreso, they are not policed. If they started losing elections because the electorate actually participated in the system, with more than just sometimes voting, that would change. It truly comes back to them being able to get away with doing their jobs poorly because they are not held responsible for their (bad) work.
But I don’t think the system that has been further and further adulterated to those ends will ever just hand us the tools to upend that system.
The whole point of my argument is that we have those tools today, we’re just too lazy/not-caring to use them.
Umm…have you ever tried contacting your representatives? You seem to think it’s so easy to get them on the phone. Why. How can you possibly think that? Those numbers don’t ring in their pockets. Their aides are the only people receiving and sorting through those calls and emails and letters.
There are a great many ways to petition the government, including with actual petitions, but, short of showing up in person, the one reputed to be the most effective is picking up the phone and calling your congressional representatives. In the weeks following the Inauguration of Donald J. Trump, so many people started doing so that, in short order, voice mail filled up and landlines began blurting out busy signals. Pretty soon, even e-mails were bouncing back, with the information that the target in-box was full and the suggestion that senders “contact the recipient directly.” That being impractical, motivated constituents turned to other means. The thwarted and outraged took to Facebook or Twitter or the streets. The thwarted and determined dug up direct contact information for specific congressional staffers. The thwarted and clever remembered that it was still possible, several technological generations later, to send faxes; one Republican senator received, from a single Web-based faxing service, seven thousand two hundred and seventy-six of them in twenty-four hours. The thwarted and creative phoned up a local pizza joint, ordered a pie, and had it delivered, with a side of political opinion, to the Senate.
Americans vote, if we vote at all, roughly once every two years. But even in a slow season, when no one is resorting to faxes or protests or pizza-grams, we participate in the political life of our nation vastly more often by reaching out to our members of Congress. When we do so, however, we almost never get to speak to them directly. Instead, we wind up dealing with one of the thousands of people, many of them too young to rent a car, who collectively constitute the customer-service workforce of democracy.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/what-calling-congress-achieves
That doesn’t offer cold data, but it’s a pretty well known fact that this was an explosion of sudden political participation. And I don’t remember things going particularly well. Do you.
Umm…have you ever tried contacting your representatives?
I did it just a few days ago, actually.
You seem to think it’s so easy to get them on the phone.
You contact them, not call them. I never said call, I said contact.
Let them know you’re watching, let them know your opinions on issues, let them know you’re engaged, and you’re not just mindless cattle that they can manipulate in whatever way they want. If we all do it, if they feel the ‘Eye of Sauron’ on them, they act differently.
All you have to do is use one of their online email forms. They even respond back, letting you know they registered your email on what subject you’re talking about. They track this stuff internally.
From the article that you linked…
Unlike call volume, the data on mail sent to Congress is public, and it suggests that, at least among the politically active, the U.S. Postal Service remains popular; the Senate alone received more than 6.4 million letters last year. Contrary to popular opinion, those written communications are an effective way of communicating with Congress, >>>as are their electronic kin<<<. “Everything is read, every call and voice mail is listened to,” Isaiah Akin, the deputy legislative director for Oregon’s Senator Ron Wyden, told me. “We don’t discriminate when it comes to phone versus e-mail versus letter.
So, even in the article you linked, even the aides of Representatives state that contacting them is effective in making them aware that they’re being seen by their constituency.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/what-calling-congress-achieves
There’s a volume/ratio problem of citizens to a single representative, so of course theyir aides are going to triage the calls coming in.
If you have a serious problem, some legal or administrative issue with the government, you actually are able to get elevated past the aides and talk to your actual representative. That happens all the time to citizens here.
But again, what I’m advocating is contacting them, you don’t call, you email (which is actually easier for us citizens to do anyways). They usually even have a link on their website where you can just web email them directly.
Their aides are the only people receiving and sorting through those calls and emails and letters.
And what, the aides never talk to their senators or their representatives? They never track why people are calling? B.S., they do both.
You’re not being intellectually honest. No one ever said you get personal one-on-one meetings whenever you want, and it’s weird how you’re purposely trying to motivate people not to engage in the political system they live in. Almost like you have an agenda/motives of your own.
Edit: Have you actually read through that whole article you linked? It really makes my point.
This is just two of the many examples that the article documents…
On January 2nd, House Republicans voted in secret to defang the Office of Congressional Ethics; less than twenty-four hours later, following what seemed at the time like a deluge of calls but later turned out to be just that loud patter you hear on your window before the storm really begins, they reversed their decision.
On January 24th, Representative Jason Chaffetz, Republican of Utah, introduced a proposal to sell off 3.3 million acres of federal land. Barely a week later, on February 1st, he withdrew it, after getting an earful. “Groups I support and care about fear it sends the wrong message,” he explained. “I hear you and H.R. 621 dies tomorrow.”
I mean, good luck with that. Pirate bay is never going down at this point.
Fuck 'em. Pirate more.
Instead of being contempt with one yacht, they’re gonna do what they can to have zero.
When A24 and state run film studios like Vicscreen are the only ones making anything remotely worth the box office, you have a problem, and burning down the barn to stop the foxes from all those delicious hens aren’t gonna fix it. Just more socialized losses.
From the article…
He also told the audience that pirate-site operators "aren’t teenagers playing an elaborate prank. The perpetrators are real-life mobsters, organized crime syndicates—many of whom engage in child pornography, prostitution, drug trafficking, and other societal ills.
I’m honestly surprised they didn’t throw the word ‘terrorist’ into that description as well.
Especially eye-roll-inducing considering the pedophile problem in Hollywood hasn’t really gotten better, let alone been solved. Many of the exec types demanding things change are likely to be either perpetrators themselves, or sympathisers with the perpetrators of this behavior, and they tell us what we should believe is right or wrong based on the almighty dollar? Fuck Hollywood in general, but especially fuck the movie industry executives in charge. Greedy bastards.
Aren’t those things already illegal? Wouldn’t the solution be to just go after the pirate-site owners for those reasons? Then the only pirate-site owners remaining will be regular people—the vast minority, they would have you believe.
Everybody knows movie pirates eat babies—
Wait.
Pirate Bay.
Pirate Ba(b)y?
Pirate Babe Eat?
I think you’re on to something!
deleted by creator
I think maybe they are describing themselves.
…Many of whom engage in child pornography, prostitution, drug trafficking, murder, terrorism, poisonings, Hentai, bad DIY, unsolicited advice, telling women to smile, wearing JNKOs, hacking banks, and NOT FLOSSING!
There are vegans that were dictators. Therefore veganism should be illegal. Also some people who breath air have been known to be murderers.
Are we surprised that the people that make up fantastical scenarios are selling a fantastical scenario? The people pirating are every day people that don’t want to pay so much for entertainment. You inept dolt.
You inept dolt.
Hostile much, conflict bot?
And people accuse me of wooshness. 😋
I’m upset at the movie executive that is inept. Not you.
Are we surprised that the people that make up fantastical scenarios are selling a fantastical scenario? The people pirating are every day people that don’t want to pay so much for entertainment. You inept dolt.
I’m upset at the movie executive that is inept. Not you.
The way you bolted that on to a comment that was directed at me, and have it meant for someone else, seems a little unusual, but fair enough.
Thanks for the clarification.
Yea. I was definitely talking to the exec. But I see the confusion. I should have quoted him or something.
Okay, I’ll use my own DNS provider
Maybe they will actually geoblock…
I’ll use my VPN.
Imagine how much money the movie industry would have if it stopped wasting time and effort on the false idea that 1 download = 1 lost sale.
But remember, when it comes to doing a public good/service/education/etc, the government is perpetually broke and can afford nothing.
150M $? This sounds like with such money entire city’s Public Transport can run for 10 years. Without fees.
How about they start making good movies that are actually worth to go to cinema for instead of whatever they are doing
Yup, I go to movies when they look good. But movies are so expensive these days that the bar is raised enough that I rarely go. If you’re going to ask $10-15 for a single viewing, you need to make a really good movie.
I’m happy to spend £10 to watch a movie at the cinema, but I refuse to spend £10 AND have to buy the movie to watch it again. I will watch it then pirate it. I don’t think that’s such a big deal.
And adjust the fucking business model so that theatres can make money from people just buying tickets at reasonable prices and don’t have to try to gouge them at the concession stand or treat them like criminals for bringing their own food.
I’ve been to one movie in the theatre since the pandemic and the main thing it did was remind me that seeing movies in a theatre just wasn’t really worth it anymore.
“They are deying us our Corporate Right to Profit!!!”
Oh no, now I will have to pay $50/mo to re-watch marvel movie 832 and an action movie where the main character has to go on a 2hr quest for revenge after someone shot their pet.
…I barely watch movies anymore, there’s not been a ton of great new stuff imo. I’m so sick of subscriptions, too.
Same. Been watching a lot of film noir actually. The third man, double indemnity, strangers on a train. What happened to story telling?
Yeah. I just use free streaming sites.
It really put things into perspective who the useful idiots are in society.
We’re surrounded by them.
They’re pretty much all the Journey Of The Hero anyways and that shit is 3000 years old.
Yup. I used to watch a lot of movies and TV shows, now I mostly play video games and read books. Movies and TV just aren’t that good.
Frankly combining the recent and less recent events - I think fuck them.
I can understand selling a book or a movie and it being theft to download a copy. It’s at least logically consistent - you show someone something with a condition that they pay you, it’s dishonest to look and not pay.
But owning characters and universes and their names and so on?
And these laws not being used against “AI” firms?
All at the same time?
No. Right is about compromise. They don’t do that, so we don’t owe them anything. And let them obey what is made for their benefit first.
Copying is not theft.
If you’ve promised to not copy to get what you copy - it’s quite close.
It’s really not. A pair of shoes has one owner by its nature we can’t both wear it. If I take yours you can no longer wear it. Because valuables are locked up the only way to take it is usually to commit some other crime like breaking into your house or your locker or assaulting your person.
Copyright isn’t something I agreed to or even had any meaningful say in its something lawmakers promised they wouldn’t let happen on my behalf without any input from me before I was born. Rather than enforcing the safety of my person and home against removal of my property it says that you own certain combinations of words and even if I use my paper and ink to write them as soon as I write enough similar words it becomes your property. Moreso than just not being an enforcement of the inherently exclusive nature of physical property it is a violation of it because it assigns my physical property to you.
Sorry, but you wrote with many letters something which doesn’t say how it becomes honest that you get a thing or a knowledge on very specific conditions and then violate them with the intention to do that.
IANAL
Physical property can not be copied, so if physical property is taken, then the physical property can be stolen.
Digital property can be copied, so if it’s copied, you no longer have a single instance of said property, you now have the original property and the copied property.
Can we actually say with absolute affirmation that it is theft if a good is copied, regardless of what the law states? Is it moral or immoral to copy a good? Can we equate it to actual physical theft of property and state that it has the same level of immorality that allegedly causes harm?
This is where Intellectual Property and Copyright play a role. Copyright is a License granted to use a service or medium of an original work. Anything that can be duplicated, copied, or otherwise easily reproduced without affecting physical removal isn’t necessarily theft. The harm that’s typically claimed is that of affected income.
If I file for a trademark for a Logo, Character, or otherwise recognizable branding, then it “can be said” that “I own said ‘property’”. At this point, it becomes trademarked intellectual property. That’s how and why someone that “owns an IP for a character” can sue someone else for use of said “intellectual property”.
Typically, when someone wants to access said “property”, they need to “pay to gain access” or “gain permission for use”, e.g. a License.
I can only go off of what I’ve read from official sources. Regardless, I think it’s immoral to own an idea. It would be more beneficial to share with society than to hoard ideas that are essentially copyable and easily reproducible mediums of information. It doesn’t cost anything to copy, reproduce, and redistribute the copyable good.
I think a solid middle ground that would benefit both individuals and society as a whole would be to enforce attribution, but not property rights upon non-physical goods or services, e.g. only require accreditation for critical services like health care, insurance, banking, electrical, etc.
For example, Owning the intellectual property for, let’s say, a camera for over 75 years and requiring anyone that produces a camera to pay royalties is absurd. Anyone should be able to produce and distribute a camera. Owning the idea for how to create a camera, allowing that to affect anyone that can, and does, produce a camera is immoral, even if it is lawful.
The nuances of how this is considered is open to debate.
Still not talking about what I said.
If you’ve promised to not copy to get what you copy - it’s quite close.
You never promised to not copy anything. You were given a copy, are allowed to create copies, but agreed to not distribute copies for income.
I can purchase a book, copy the book for my own use and purpose, but not redistribute copies of the book, especially for income. Once the distribution process affects income, then it’s claimed to be harmful.
Except there were no promise.
Another guy just said there were. It was more specific, but “piracy” violates it anyway.
So without an agreement you don’t get the book, unless it’s a copy given by another person who violated the agreement without which they couldn’t have gotten it.
With an agreement there is that promise.
Seems a simple enough thought.
Imagine if there were replicators - devices that can copy anything including food, clothes, any device(even itself), housing, anything. But instead of fixing actual problems with it we would discuss who promised to not copy what.
Well, at least this is distant enough future, we don’t even have device that can copy any information including how to make food, clothes, any device(even itseld), housing, anything, so there is no pro-- Wait, WE HAVE IT! We have information replucator and we are talking about who promised to not copy what.
Imagine bankrupting world’s economy 10 times by copying movies over and over for one day.
