It’s a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.
Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.
It’s no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it’s those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.
As expected, there is no evidence that this is “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. Don’t waste your time reading this article.
MS has been doing this kind of shit for decades and their market share has never changed significantly.
Was it stupid? Yeah. Are people upset? Sure. Is anyone going to do anything about it? No, because the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago.
I both agree and disagree. I agree that there isn’t going to be a single ‘straw’, because everyone’s thresholds are different. For me it was back when Microsoft auto-upgraded my PC to Win 8, which was also when they started putting in hard-to-disable telemetry and bad UI. It sounds like Recall is the threshold for some other people.
Also don’t discount that MS’ market share is dominated by a ton of corporate users (who lack a choice) and casual users (who don’t care / are unaware), but at least anecdotally they’ve been losing the power users in my life, which if true in general which will have negative downstream effects for them moving forward (IT departments working to support alternatives, software developers refusing to build on Windows Server / MS software stack, etc.)
If only there is a way to invest in linux usage
the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago
It’s a little disingenuous to claim people should’ve stopped using something that hasn’t come to market yet. I was looking for other options when they started trying to force me to upgrade to Windows 11, but this absolutely is the last straw that I won’t use Windows on my next computer.
It’s a little disingenuous to claim people should’ve stopped using something that hasn’t come to market yet.
It is. Good thing I didn’t do that.
I was looking for other options
Oh well I guess the global tide is shifting if you are personally looking for other options.
You said there was no evidence that anyone would change. I told you my personal story how this IS impacting me and how I’m going to change OS on my next computer, and you… just sarcastically dismissed me?
Did you want to actually contribute to the conversation or just be upset?
You said there was no evidence that anyone would change.
No that is not what I said.
just sarcastically dismissed me?
Because your personal anecdote is not indicative of societal movement.
the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago
Try reading the sentence with this implied bit explicitly added. I’m pretty sure this is what was intended, and is why you are getting the response you are.
the vast majority don’t care (about Microsoft’s continuous bullshit) or they would have stopped using it a long time ago
The bit I added is communicated by the context from the preceeding sentence in the original comment:
MS has been doing this kind of shit for decades and their market share has never changed significantly.
I’m using windows 11 and after hearing about recall and all the other shit they’ve done, I’ve finally decided to make the jump to Linux
So for atleast me, this was the final straw
I had dabbled in gaming on Linux but never made the jump. After reading about recall I spent a week making my choice on OS of choice ( and then I switched a week after :') ).
I’m fully on Linux now. Even if they fully back down from windows recall I dont need an OS that’s trying to sell me something based on whatever I do in it.
It was my final straw as well.
Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.
I’ll probably run into something at one point. Like some anti cheat that doesn’t work and is preventing me from playing the game.
Im in similar scenario. Which distro you decided on?
A couple people recommended Fedora spins but I’d recommend just sticking with the big distros (that have up-to-date graphics drivers readily available - so not Debian.) A lot of the gaming-focused distros are only saving you a few terminal commands and increase your risk of running into issues; they’re good, but they may not be as 100% stable as you’ll find in major long-running distros like Fedora or Mint.
I have settled on Fedora with KDE Plasma. Here’s basically everything I copy pasted for gaming:
# install steam, discord, nvidia drivers sudo dnf install https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm -y sudo dnf config-manager --enable fedora-cisco-openh264 -y sudo dnf update -y sudo dnf install steam discord akmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda # install bluetooth Xbox driver sudo dnf install git dkms cd /tmp git clone https://github.com/atar-axis/xpadneo.git && cd xpadneo sudo ./install.shI also had to enable Legacy X11 App Support through the settings gui so that Discord could receive push to talk presses without having focus.
Sweet, thanks. I want to start something straightforward and so far Mint looks very promising.
Just be sure to get the edge release if you care about gaming or have current (like newer than 2021) hardware. Mint’s main release is on an old kernel, 5.15 I think. Mint edge release is running kernel 6.5, which is from earlier this year.
I ended up with nobara ( KDE ). Though if i had to reinstall I might give bazzite a go.
No hate for nobara though. It’s working fine gaming wise. Had a gfx issue once after an update, which was resolved by just running the nobara system updater.
I have some issues getting devpods to work. But that is completely unrelated to gaming :D
If you don’t enjoy having driver issues, just install regular old Fedora with Gnome. The fancier you get with Linux, the more maintenance you have to put into the system. Fedora works out of the box.
Tbh it was kind of my fault. I should’ve used the general updater that comes with nobara by default.
Edit: the devpod issue is a bit weird and not driver related. Its got something to do with SSL when its trying to clone the git repo. But I can run the clone command myself just fine. Honestly the devcontainer hasnt really worked out great for me in combination with jetbrains.
It might work better with vscode, but that editor makes me want to throw my device out the window. All the love to people who use it/enjoy it on a daily basis but it is just not for me.
Thanks. I only had so far Linux experience with my Steam Deck, I will look into these distros.
Linux has lots of flavors; and just like ice cream, you can have a scoop, see if you like it, and try another one later.
I’ve been through so many Linux and Unix flavors over the years, it’s borderline absurd. But what was great is that I found a flavor just right for me and my needs, like finding your ideal car. Don’t worry about making the right decision on a flavor at the start, just dive in.
Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, Pop! OS, Manjaro, elementary OS, Zorin etc are great starting points. You’ll hear people bigging up Arch, Nix, Gentoo, Slackware, Void, etc. There’s are all great in their own way and very well might be the right thing for you but don’t feel pressured to jump in the deep end (unless you love that thing, then be my guest - Arch was a lot of fun getting it up and running for the first time).
The best decision I can suggest is learning about mount points and having a drive dedicated to your files and simply mounting that drive inside your home directory. It means you can wipe and try another distro wherever you like without having to copy your files off and on over and over again.
I 100% agree. I personally did this:
- Ubuntu
- Fedora
- Arch
- openSUSE Tumbleweed
I had a reason for each switch, and I’m pretty happy where I’m at. That said, I don’t recommend openSUSE or Arch to new users even though I think they’re fantastic, I just think a new user will get better support with something Debian or Fedora derived.
If you are interested in gaming, Bazzite is built on top of a Fedora distro but adds default installs of Steam and (optional) Nvidia drivers and tweaks. It’s got a cool immutable root setup. You should be able to stay pretty up-to-date, but can roll back the entire OS if an update breaks something.
Which distro did you end up on? I’ve been looking into them and after using steamos on my deck, I think I will go with Bazzite kde
I ended up with nobara. I might give bazzite a go at one point, but more out of interest. Nobara is treating me just fine!
Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.
If it’s shader compilation under Steam, turn it off in settings. With advancements in graphics drivers and Proton, it really isn’t needed anymore.
I disabled it about 12 months ago and haven’t noticed any difference in performance whatsoever.
Huh. Interesting. I’ll give that a try too then :)
I get that. And, playing the devil’s advocate here…what happens in a couple of years when the time comes to purchase a new Laptop/desktop that comes pre-installed with Windows? Will your current ire and consternation hold up until then, meaning you’ll take the effort…long after this current “trust crisis” is over…to install Linux once again. Or, with this current scandal a faint memory from a few years back, will you just kind of shrug and say “Hey…it’s there, I might as well just go with it.”
I mean no offense, and I by know means want to presume your answer here. But I’d be willing to bet 90% of the people who, in a pique of ire, replace their current windows with a linux distro, won’t bother to do the same when they purchase a new laptop down the road.
But I’d be willing to bet 90% of the people who, in a pique of ire, replace their current windows with a linux distro, won’t bother to do the same when they purchase a new laptop down the road.
Linux is superior to Windows. Not only do I get more done and faster, I enjoy the process much more. For example, you know AHK? That useful application on Windows where you can make macros?
Well, on base Fedora you have an AHK built right into the system without any modification and you can use shell scripts- aka a real language instead of the wonky AHK language.
That’s one example. I can list them off rapid fire but I’d just write a wall of text unnecessarily.
My point is just that Linux is better. I don’t use Linux because it’s cool or interesting or I’m a hobbyist or anything like that. I use it because it’s the better option for the things I do on my computer.
That may be different for you. If you are a graphic designer or a music producer that may be different. But I’m usually in a terminal and Unix is the superior terminal. Windows terminal is such a joke they literally had to port in the Linux terminal through WSL
Every machine I’ve purchased in the last 16 years has had a Linux liveCD or USB key before first power up. Windows has tried to boot a couple times, when I was too slow to figure out how to select a boot device, but none has actually completed the boot process. I take a sort of perverse pleasure in formatting pre-installed windows without it ever having run.
That’s my strategy as well. I just don’t know how many of us there are that are that committed vs the people who are “temporarily irate” and then go back with their next purchase because its “easier”.
Installing Linux is a pretty trivial process at this point. Not much additional work beyond what already comes with setting up a new laptop. Especially of you’ve already done it before.
Unless it’s arch lol.
I get your point, and you’re probably right for most, but I haven’t purchased a premade desktop in a looong time - my current desktop I purchased the parts individually and installed windows manually
Same here
Some, maybe 1-2% of Windows users keep yelling “I’ma switch to Linux”. They then try it for a few days and give up.
You didn’t matter in the first place, but also you will most likely not make a successful transition anyways.
Lol. Okay whatever you say.
Crab
For at least 3 decades. That’s twice more than the time between Second Boer War and WWI. That’s the time between the start of WWII and the initial versions of Unix. Or between the initial versions of Unix and Start Wars the Phantom Menace. More than between the original Star Wars and the Phantom Menace.
Thank you for your service to this thread.
I just read they decided to default it to off. They should remove it entirely imo, but with this move, it costs IT departments $0 and 0 hours of their time to worry about.
I think business + government + education usage is more important for them than personal, and as long as this costs them nothing, I doubt it makes a dent in anyone’s plans. Could have been an apocalypse if defaulted to on though.
I just read they decided to default it to off.
From what I’ve seen they will be asking yes or no upon setup with no default.
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“Not now”
Ya, a PR nightmare for the next 15 minutes until the next unbelievable thing comes along and the ADD nature of people forgets windows is watching everything they do.
That’s usually what I think too, but after watching how Twitter’s gone to shit since the two big user departures, I think this could legitimately affect Microsoft’s bottom line.
I believe the biggest thing that will hurt MS is moving to subscription. The vast majority of users aren’t gonna wanna have a forever fee when they buy a laptop/PC
That’s definitely going to be a problem for them, yes, because it’s also going to drive a ton of traffic to Linux and Linux is going to get even better.
That will rely on businesses moving away from Windows. That is where they make a ton of their money with Enterprise licenses and Office 365 subscriptions.
Yup. It’ll depend on how they handle Recall at the institutional level.
It’s a given that hospitals and law firms will have to turn it off, as they’re required by law to honor privilege. We’ll see what choices they make.
I find the nosedive in Twitter’s stock price these last few years encouraging. It seems for many there is a red line.
And businesses don’t give a shit about their employees’ privacy
They do care about keeping their company secrets and proprietary info though. Recall could make corporate espionage a cake walk.
We handle a lot of IP on our Windows PCs so it’s debatable. However, in recent years, Microsoft has taken over most of our services with SSO, office 360, teams, etc so who knows.
If you look at sysadmin forums and groups it seems like most recommend disabling recall. Just about every enterprise will have confidentiality, security, or legislative requirements that recall is simply inconsistent with. It’s understandably been a hot topic.
Twitter is a great example of the exact opposite being true. Are people upset? Absolutely. Did they leave the platform? Nope. Maybe a small percentage.
Twitter definitely lost a ton of users and tons continue to leave. That’s why advertisers have pulled out and their stock price has tanked. Twitter is a bad example
Twitter definitely lost a ton of users and tons continue to leave.
Define “tons”? As a percentage, it is miniscule, and it remains the place where politicians, companies and other entities make public announcements. It’s also, for some reason, the only platform supported for customer support from various companies.
I think advertisers have made some impacts to the bottom line, too. I don’t have any direct evidence for this, but I used to get ads for things like Pepsi. Now it’s mostly things like Larry’s Pillow Case Repair or pelvic floor steaming kits.
lol, literally just making stuff up. Their number of active users dropped by 15-20% since Elmo took over: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/26/twitter-usage-in-us-fallen-by-a-fifth-since-elon-musks-takeover
Respectfully, it’s not.
The user departures, and response to further enshittify, have driven their stock price into the ground.
What user departures? The platform has barely dipped. Stock prices are meaningless.
Number of users doesn’t matter because most people don’t close their accounts. Twitter’s actual usage and traffic is down by 20% since Elmo took over and their revenue is also massively down.
Who said anything about “number of users”? “Monthly Active Users” (MAU) is the industry standard.
Are you serious? The comment you replied to explicitly says “user departures”. And the article I linked is about active users.
Is this how you respond when you’re proven to be blatantly wrong about something? Totally pathetic.
X is the one telling the number of X users. Do you really trust Melon to tell the truth?
You’re assuming my source is Musk.
So far in this thread only one person has actually shared a source of any kind. Care to share with the class?
It’s X.
Stop deadnaming X.
Anyone still clinging to the remnants of its former existence, please close your account. Stop kidding yourself.
I’ll stop deadnaming Twitter when Musk stops deadnaming his trans daughter.
And for the record, I’ve never used Twitter. It’s always kinda sucked. Now it really sucks.
Musk is a complete shithead and that’s not gonna happen.
Calling it Twitter is only going to accommodate the people that refuse to get off that nazi network.
Cause you know Musk gets off on the hate of people still calling it Twitter, exactly because how he treats deadnaming.
I’ll never NOT call it Twitter, and you can’t make me.
You say that but deep down you know it’s Elon Musk’s X now. The dream is no more. You’re an X’er Harry!
What’s X? Is that the older version of Wayland or something?
It’s a shittier version of Mastodon but for right wing lunatics and russian bots.
I think that those two form a venn diagram of a blurry circle.
A lot of people would have huge bursts of negativity about this, but at the same time remain stubborn enough to not even consider evaluating alternatives. Microsoft and Apple spent decades making sure this would work
For now at least, I block as much telemetry at the network level (DNS level) using pihole.
Annoys my wife and kid at times. I try to explain why and what it means but convenience is king unfortunately.
My mom only really browses the web, writes emails, and edits and occasional document. I’ve given her my old XPS 9350, with Fedora installed on it, and she’s been very happy with it. Keeps saying that everything just makes sense, and when she needs something, it’s easy to find. She’s far from tech savvy, but not completely clueless either
That’s cool!
I’m swapping to Linux finally because of it. Few things are black and white but these things do have effects and some additional percentage of users are shifting over because of it.
Ok fine, I’ll repeat it again:
You’re right - many consumers will likely forget about it and just use it anyways. But enterprise customers absolutely, categorically will not. Even with their damage control, this is still going to hurt them a lot. Moreover, it’s going to hurt hardware sales from Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm, all of which have dumped MASSIVE amounts of capital into this tech. This is going to slow the rollout of NN-optimized chip tiles, and that is going to directly hit their bottom line. Microsoft hurt themselves AND the three most important hardware partners they have.
Oh please it’s not watching everything you do. It’s just taking screenshots 🙃
I agree with your point, but I think it’s important not to forget just how shitty tech media is a holding these companies to account. Half the shit most mainstream tech journalist publish borders on hagiography for these companies.
dumb fucking corporations will still line their pockets with money.
Stallman just keeps being right*
*About software freedom
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Linux!: Had set It up years ago when it was a slog. Came back recently after Windows did this— and it was so much easier.
Work? Yes. The comfort of knowing I’ve put off for one more day the tech ubergods carving my life open? Also yes.
I see no broken backs here. People have been composing songs about Bill Gates being a faggot (I’m not homophobic, that was just the climate back then) since he entered the general conscience. Microsoft being both clumsy and criminal has been the butt of too many jokes since Windows 95 at least.
I’m too young to remember anything older than 98SE, but I remember that when XP came out, people were complaining that it’s slow ugly shit as compared to 2K, and it felt that if MS doesn’t change the general direction, people will remain on older stuff or move to alternatives, Vista was hated so badly that everybody suddenly forgot the hate for XP, 7 was first advertised as something sky cool and impossible, then turned out to be kinda mundane, but usable. Actually with every Windows OS new brand there’s an outrage. With every MS big news there’s an outrage. They always deliver the opportunity.
TL;DR - Hoping that MS will kill itself is stupid.
It’s also important to remember that Microsoft has no monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall.
With that in mind, there would be no reason for Microsoft to automatically enable Windows Recall in an update down the line. If it does happen, the user will be able to instantly tell thanks to that that visual indicator and turn it off again.
This article is nothing but propaganda. There is huge monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall and collect their data, and Microsoft routinely uses Windows Update to enable data collection. They began that practice years ago on Windows 7. It’s a ridiculously simple matter for MS to disable the visual indicator and force This Week’s Plan on their users to monetize their data.
Windows Central pretends to be critical of plans to enable a feature that can be made into malware by Microsoft in a couple of minutes, but then back peddles and says it can’t be done (utter BS) and if it could be, it wouldn’t be that bad.
Even if the database remains local only forever, which I don’t believe for a second, the computer will eventually make hyperspecific requests for ads based on the spying.
Only data that is not stored cannot fall victim to attackers. It does not matter whether it is a ‘nigerian prince’, Microsoft or some agency. Even if you completly trust whatever entity with your data right now, they may become problematic in the future.
This is why a low profile is a crucial component of OPsec.
Recall is objectively stupid, even if Microsoft only had their users best interest in mind. And they don’t.
The struggle is real for M$ - recall is a Security Incident waiting to happen.
Do people outside of tech care?
Not really
For the retail market, most people just have phones not computers anymore. Microsoft has already lost The Battle of Windows phone.
For the Enterprise market none of this recent b******* is going to enterprise customers anyway, they would have group policies and volume licensing deals to avoid all the b*******.
For those poor retail customers who still run Windows, they suffer, but they’re minor, not significant
This is for the enterprise market more than anything. Large companies are already logging and mining everything. Slack, Teams chat, Teams voice, email, keystrokes…literally everything. Microsoft’s problem is that Enterprises are using third party products to do so. Recall solves that competitive issue for MS. I have no doubt that it will be tied to their cloud offerings, and I have no doubt that MS will retain the right to use it all of the data from the consumer side for AI training.
I’ve worked extensively in the Enterprise environment, and data exfiltration is a massive concern for any company with intellectual property, which is most of them.
Having data leak at all, another vector for exfiltration, is a huge huge risk.
Heck, I’d be surprised if Microsoft itself let its own developers run Total recall
As an infosec professional for way longer than I care to remember, you are preaching to the choir. That said, all of our clients are both large enterprise and critical infrastructure, and they all log (and mine) everything. Not only that, they are shipping this directly to third parties. It makes me break out into a cold sweat every time I think about it, but here we are.
PS: OK, all the US based ones. Our EU based client does not do this to my knowledge and I assume it has to do with EU regulations, but that’s just a wild guess.
Good point. But the companies are at least controlling the data pathway, being aware of it, signing off on it, doing it for their benefit.
And I imagine at least for the US companies, every company they exfiltrate data to, is contractually obligated to keep their data private
Bullshit
Just passing through and corrupting children.
O7
Thank you for your service!
Fuck yeah
Bunter2
baloney
Why are you censoring yourself? Are you stupid?
Possibly. But I’m also definitely lazy, and my voice to text automatically censors. And I don’t feel like changing it. So f*** it
For the majority of commercial users they literally don’t give a fuck either. It’s on techies that really care about his stuff sadly.
Just think they might go from owning 98% of the market to 97% of the market. I am sure this is a nightmare for them.
Microsoft should go further and further with this so that windows becomes worse so that less people use it.
I wish Linux weren’t completely fucking impenetrable for casual users.
It isn’t impenetrable. ChromeOS and Android are Linux based after all. If you don’t want to be prayed upon by Google you can use things like UBlue (inc. Aurora, Bazzite), PopOS, or Mint.
The advantage of PopOS and UBlue being you can download an image with Nvidia drives pre installed.
PopOS is a very mac like interface so you might not like it. Otherwise it’s pretty much install and go, has good community support, and even comes pre installed on some high end machines.
In the case of UBlue they include images for specific manufacturers of laptops like ASUS, Framework, and Microsoft surface. You also get fully automatic atomic upgrades with rollback in case of failure, similar to Chrome OS. This means even if you do something very stupid like reboot in the middle of an OS update, it won’t matter. It’s engineered to be almost unbreakable even for new Linux users thanks to being partly immutable. You get a choice as well between varieties for normal users called Aurora, one of gamers called Bazzite, a development one called Bluefin, and a server version too. Being based on Fedora it’s also reasonably up to date as well, but without sacrificing stability like Arch does.
Linux Mint is the classic easy to use Linux that runs on most computers made in the last 10 years and often older. It does sometimes struggle on newer machines with drivers though as it’s not using an up to date kernel. What it’s good for is that it pretty much just works when you have it installed and set up. It’s popular so you should get plenty of community support. It’s a quite similar interface to Windows while arguably looking better and definitely using less resources.
I’ve heard this a few times lately. It makes me curious how recent the impenetrable experience was.
I’m shocked at the idea that an average Windows user who tried this year’s version of Debian Stable would find it even mildly confusing, much less impenetrable.
I switch between Windows 10 and Debian 12 Stable, daily.
I find that, on Debian, all the expected features are in the same spots, acting the same ways.
Disclaimer: I don’t have an Nvidia graphics card to cause me headaches.
And I do understand that depending on hardware, installation can be tough. That’s true with Windows, too, of course. At least installation doesn’t have to be an issue for new purchases, since enough PCs can now ship with either pre-installed.
I do have Nvidia graphics, and it just works.
Same. Never had a problem. I installed Linux Mint and it simply worked correctly without any modifications. Quite a bit of care is taken with the UX which is outstanding considering it’s a volunteer project.
Quite a bit of care is taken with the UX which is outstanding considering it’s a volunteer project.
Yeah. I am frequently delighted by excellent usability experiences on modern Linux!
Maybe I’m biased, since it’s so much better than when I started. But I still have a Windows 10 PC for my work, and - while the usability on Windows 10 is no slouch - I honestly would have a hard time saying which is better, overall, now. (Ignoring, for the sake of discussion, really obvious anipatterns like the start menu ads in Windows.)
I don’t think a casual user would in many cases even be able to tell the difference. I mean you have a desktop with some icons which most of people only use to start the browser which is absolutely identical in both systems.
You have a start menu with other programs and you have a task bar which shows the open programs and some status icons and a clock.
It is really not that different. Most people just start a browser and go on Facebook or eBay or whatever, use a simple word processor for the daily needs. I don’t think they would be able to tell the difference.
My wife’s 91 year old grandmother used Mint without any issues whatsoever. All she needed was solitaire and the internet.
But, a lot of people do look at something different and just throw up their hands and say, “I don’t know how to use it,” without ever trying.
It’s gotten a lot better over the years
When I first tried it (back in 2010) it was pretty rough all around but after trying it again recently due to the whole TPM requirement for Windows 11 I’ve found it to be really straight forward
Linux Mint is really user friendly and is what I’ve even put on my grandma’s pc
It’s not that it hasn’t gotten better, but that the entire infrastructure that’s underpinning the GUI is simply completely different than what people are used to. And I’m not just talking CLI here, because the average Windows user likely doesn’t use that to begin with – it’s things like filesystem organization, software management, driver installation, configuration files, etc.
And it’s not that these barriers are insurmountable either, but they DO require a significant amount of cognitive effort that not everyone is willing to put in.
Your grandma probably hates the fact that you did though. There’s a small chance that’s not the case but I’d be shocked if she hadn’t complained about it many times to other people.
People in my family are straight forward and blunt with their opinions and how they feel about things. She did mention it was weird looking but she was willing to try it out because her system was going to be insecure before the end of next year.
She’s had no complaints so far in the last few months.
People who don’t understand what an OS is typically use linux mint fine because they just open chrome or Firefox.
Even the casual Zoom meeting is a breeze because of the Flatpak client.
So you need a whole ass sandbox program just to run Zoom? Hm.
You keep making posts that made sense or were accurate 5-15 years ago, thats why you keep getting downvoted.
Pretend you know nothing about linux, and go and try something like Mint, and youll likely have an experience that mirrors the people downvoting you.
You say that but at the same time there’s a linuxmemes post in my feed right now where people are joking about how broken drivers require an OS reinstall so you know
You actually don’t need it.
If you trust Zoom enough, then you can install its official client from its webpage, without “a whole ass sandbox program” that restricts its access to important parts of your system.
But it’s your call, I prefer the other way around.
Its a selling point for me privacy wise no? The program Doesn’t need the access to everything like my graphene phone.
That’s the real concern. Can they go online, read email, and easily look at their photos?
Your grandma would hate and complain about upgrading from Win10 to Win11 just the same, though. Everyone hates change itself. What the change is made to doesn’t really matter.
People do hate change. The bigger the change the more they hate it. That’s exactly why Windows to Linux is much worse for them than Windows 10 to Windows 11.
Cinnamon desktop (Linux Mint) is actually pretty damn close to the windows desktop, so the change is mostly just cosmetic.
I think it is pretty grandma-proof; less is more. Windows xp-like start menu with no web results or other nonsense there, just internet button, picture viewer, and solitaire. Updates can be automated and there’s no easy way to break the ui, like accidentally removing the task bar.
Exactly what I was thinking when I installed it for her
I was even able to give her Space Cadet Pinball back (she was a big fan back in the day and still kills it)
Space Cadet Pinball
Man, your grandma is cool.
Only sometimes unfortunately
As long as anything political or related to religion is avoided she’s mostly fine
2002 called, they want their Linux attitude back
The only real limiting factor is that most computers that you just walk into a store and buy (and are not made by Apple) come with Windows, and people just use whatever comes with their computers.
People rarely switch even default settings, let alone the entire OS.
I’m sure if computers came with Linux, there wouldn’t be that many complaints from casual users after they got used to it.
The hardest people to switch over are the Windows power users in my experience.
Most are not sure how to safely and properly install a new OS. If a computer came with Linux already pre-installed instead of Windows, count me in!
There are vendors who sell laptops that come pre-installed with Linux. Only thing is that they’re a bit more niche. Dell is probably the biggest name who sells computers with Linux as an optional OS on their website, but IIRC they brand it as “developer editions”.
Otherwise, you get vendors like System76, Tuxedo, Purism, etc. (Maybe Framework, but IDR if they even install an OS)
I still don’t think that you can walk into a store and buy any of the above.
Not that installing Linux is difficult; in fact, it’s easier than installing Windows IMO. Most distros come with easy-to-use graphical installers with easy-to-understand language, even for newbies. They also come with a live environment that lets you try out the distro before installing it. Thing is, most people aren’t even going to bother trying it.
Thing is, most people aren’t even going to bother trying it.
Here is to that changing. Society needs better options regular users will be able to just purchase and go, imo.
There are plenty of vendors that ship with Linux preinstalled. Even Dell does this with select models.
And just for the record, the tone of this is meant to be encouraging. I love hearing that people are open to other options.
It’s just a little different nowadays. Like the other user said, they just don’t know they have a choice or what to choose and follow whatever they know…
And what was one of the early bolsheviks’ regime strongest points? They created schools and made people literate en masse, and did it with their own curriculum. People became less suspective to ex elites and religious propaganda, and became their target audience.
Adobe, Google, MS give discounts and special programs for education because this way people get used to their products. Many local organizations that touch these casual users don’t have a real IT department and just flow with what’s given, they don’t make an informed choice like corporations. And that’s probably the place where this switch may even start to begin. A class of students who started with e.g. KDE Plasma would be used to it more than they used to Windows, same with other software. They can already do their homework and play most games. What else do they need?
The sharp corner is to find money to fund select schools to show others it’s not scary and makes it even cheaper for them in the long run, maybe some special troubleshooting team to teach them the ropes. I’ve heard from some users there and on reddit that their computer classes with a geeky teacher who installed Linux is how they’ve rolled in without a problem.
I’d say it’s really easy. The only requirement is making a choice to use something else, which most unfortunately is already asking too much for the vast majority of users.
Both Apple and Microsoft are two sides of the same coin…
One went left, the other went right, both going to the same location…
The only thing to consider is how you prefer to travel and how quickly you want to arrive…
