All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU::undefined
This needs to be sooner, they 100% have the ability to adhere to this law after the next generation
Speaking of this topic, can someone recommend some “free” phone, free as in speech, with disk storage of at least 0.75 TB (with or without sd card)?
I wanted to get a pixel and install graphene on it, but the max storage there is 256 GB, which is miserably low, with no sd card. I’m considering Fairphone. Any suggestions?
I have the Pixel 6 Pro, it goes up up to 512gb. I use a USB-C storage stick for anything extra.
Think that’ll work best for you, since I sadly don’t think it’s currently possible to find what you’re looking for.
If 8 pro comes with more than 512 GB, I’m all in with graphene. Waiting to see.
Why would someone need 750gb of storage?
He might be an audiophile who downloads all their high-resolution (I think that’s the term) music.
That’s like 10 movie files in 1080p. That’s not some ungodly amount of storage.
Galaxy note 20 Ultra can go up to 512gb and has a micro SD slot plus support for custom roms
It’s not a “free” phone.
The heck is a “free speech” phone? Very few phones prevent you from unlocking the bootloader and putting whatever software you want on it. The problem is what software do you want?
If you’re concerned about Google snooping on you, first off, get an iPhone. (They are marginally less snoopy, but it’s still not great.)
If you’re concerned about stock android, buy any smartphone and put Lineage or Graphene on it. You can then install Google’s services on it if you want (play store!), but at that point I’d save your time and stick with the normal version of Android that shipped with your phone.
If you’re really concerned about FOSS and having control of your device, put a Linux mobile distro on your phone - see here. Be warned, even the best mobile Linux distros are miles behind Android in terms of usability for the average user. If you want to go all in on open source, get a Pinephone or Fairphone and put Linux on it.
As a note of caution, lots of people (including me) think they want a FOSS device until they have to use one. You can totally go FOSS and fully libre, but it does come at the expense of convenience. I am quite happy with my pixel with stock android and all of the convenience that provides, but each to their own.
Fuck the EU. I hope we still get good small phones and EU assholes only get big bloated as fuck ones.
This is EU actively making my phone more shitty.
I tried Ctrl+F searching to see whether anyone here had pasted the link to the law, and didn’t find anything, so I went to Presearch and found this, which appears to be the official European Union log for it, and has attached PDFs at the end with what seem to be the nitty-gritty for further reading…
If I’ve found an errant page that just looks official, please link something better for those looking for the legalese
Care to summarize so your logic is spelled out?
God bless the European union, doing the kind of consumer protection that America won’t.
Next up: SCREENS.
I long for the day that a cracked screen becomes a simple swap-out fix.
Especially since so many corporate shitlords seem to intentionally “engineer obsolescence” by making them not very durable to even minor drops with reasonable cases (or various other bizarre things, like pets jumping up while you’re taking a picture or similar)
Now upgradable storage and memory on apple computers please
The thing is, what Apple is doing with memory actually does make sense from a performance and efficiency standpoint. Modern CPUs and GPUs have become so fast that the time signals take to travel between components (like memory and CPU) has become critical (especially in their new M1 products as memory is being shared between the CPU and GPU). That being said, the same definitely isn’t true for storage. Apple soldering SSDs to the motherboard is just them trying to rip their customers off.
It’s NOT just phones.
It’s EVERYTHING with a battery. Including cars, laptops, e-bikes, video game controllers, headphones etc. (im not even sure if there are exceptions, such as tiny tiny “airpod” like things… ?)
And they must be (with a few exceptions) replacable by a “layman”, without the use of special tools - which means no heat pads, to soften up glue etc etc. (and for gods sake, i hope it also means apple can’t hardwareID lock a battery)
an exception mentioned in the EU document about the law says, high power batteries for example in an electric car, must be done by a profesional - but of course it still has to be “replacable” and not… tear the whole car apart and rebuild it using new batteries.
replacable batteries in headphones, bluetooth mice, laptops etc, is gonna be awesome.
and lets not forget, they have to recycle the old ones - and produce new batteries using recycled materials.
in fact, i will try to hold on replacing my current (2 year old) phone, and wait to get one before 2027. Usually the battery turns to shit in 3ish years.
The cars will be fun to see unfold considering new EV platforms have them integrated straight into the platform the chassis is built upon.
Not so much new. Has been on the road map for years. More like disgusting.
There was a choice to be made to make things repairable, or not. The industry chose not.
They must all have reached nirvana when they realized they could build in planned obsolescence straight into the platform. No more replacing a tiny belt, now they get to sell a brand new car when the battery goes bad!
I really hope that this regulation from the EU stick and it doesn’t get shut down by Germany as usual when they act as an extension of the auto-industry.
You could buy fairphone if you don’t want to wait and your battery can’t handle it anymore
Also if you want to be blocked by banking apps
I didn’t knew that
Gonna make a guess here and assume that the EU probably wants to increase lithium recycling. Removable batteries would probably make that goal a bit more achievable
I’m having a hard time finding the actual regulation text with all these details. Anyone have that?
All we need now is a headphone jack
I’d be almost ready to say that we don’t need them any more if Bluetooth headphones were about 100x better and cheaper
Can’t imagine that getting mandated unfortunately
We need SD cards more. They removed them so they can charge you 300 $ to upgrade 128gb and to force you into shitty cloud service.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
Definitely. Never understood why some manufacturers removed jacks
The argument was saving space for other parts. That’s true in a way. But if things needed we should have this space. What’s next? Saving the space of the charger? /s
Headphone jacks are a 19th century invention, if having them restricts innovation then I am all for removing them.
Unless there’s an alternative, no it’s not restricting innovation.
We can’t only consider innovation today, we also have to consider its ecological impact. Jack plugs and headphones are way more durable than Bluetooth equivalent. I have 16 yo jack headset that still works perfectly, I only had to change the cushions twice.
So are speakers and batteries.
Technically 20th century, if I’m not mistaken? I just don’t see how they would restrict innovation, I guess
Apparently it’s based on a plug invented in 1878, according to the BBC.
Interesting! It’s cool to know how stuff we use/used was developed
A “19th century” technology that objectively produces better sound quality and uses less energy. And I already have wired earbuds and headsets.
Money from selling true wireless earbuds was too enticing. Even Fairphone made them and removed headphone jack and spat nonsense that it was a “point of failure.”
I personally prefer my bluetooth headphones, but it’s not like bluetooth and jacks can’t exist on the same device…
Plus, pairing bluetooth in a car can be annoying as fuck. Looking at you, Nissan
I feel like BT pairing and functionality in cars has always been shit. I have issues in my 2020 Ford, had issues in my 2015 and 2018 bmws, and my gf has issues in her Toyota.
BT pairing in our Ram works fine, and it works fine with the aftermarket Pioneer radio in my car. I’ve never had a major issue with either one with any phone I’ve owned, iPhone or Android.
For our Mazda, though, BT pairing does not work reliably with my Samsung S21 - it’s okay for phone calls (in fact, the car “steals” my calls if I’m on the phone at home and my wife gets home with the car), but for music it almost never works correctly, unless I’m also using Android Auto, which is rare because I just don’t need it for most day-to-day drives. The BT phone and music works fine for my wife’s iPhone, though.
I blame the car - my phone works just fine with several sets of Bluetooth headsets, and the other two car stereos. I think Mazda just didn’t bother to do any debugging before they shipped that piece of shit to the dealers. (This theory is based on other bugs we’ve found in the infotainment system as well.)
Because they do the bare minimum to meet the spec so that they could advertise it then. They still do the bare minimum now.
Yeah, they could coexist. I’m partial to non-bluetooth, but only because they come in shapes that I find more comfortable, and I’ve yet to find bluetooth ones that don’t make my ears hurt
You know there’s ways you can change that, right? There’s different sizes you can get for the piece that goes in your ear and they often come with the headphones/ear buds.
Yes, I just haven’t found any that I found comfortable with yet
Yeah I want a headphone jack, but the truth is that I can’t remember the last time I used mine. I have an old phone plugged into an old amp that I can play Spotify through, otherwise I use bt.
Looking forward to seeing If companies will just do the bare minimum to pass or if we’ll see some actual innovation. It would be cool to be able to buy spare batteries, that are quick to replace and easy to carry around along with a charging station or something so you can always have a full battery with you.
I bet The Apple battery, just a replacement or a dedicated module like I said above, will be starting at like $249
Apple will figure out a way to DRM batteries so that no one but them can sell them and they’ll cost as much as a new phone.
Well, uhm… - it’s been designed in California, you know?!
Quality power banks have been around for years.
This is just extra steps to a fat phone.
Modern batteries have a thin polymer shell. Sit down with that spare battery in the same pocket as your keys, and your leg is going to catch on fire.
My old Nokia had a swappable battery - but that battery was thicker than an entire iPhone.
I think apple will comply by including a dongle battery that can be replaced but no one will actually carry with their phone
The law says, “Designing portable batteries in appliances in such a way that consumers can themselves easily remove and replace them;”
Key part being “in appliances”.
They know with whom they are dealing
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You stress it like it’s a bad thing
“But it would be bad for my favorite trillion dollar corporation and for their bottom line!!!”
I’ll never understand consumers who insist to take the side of the corporation rather than the side of the customer on these issues.
Because this isn’t good for the consumer only short sighted leftists who love others taking control for them are cool with the government telling companies how they can make their products
Instead of posting a rant about “short sighted leftists,” why don’t you explain precisely why it would be so horrible if users were able to install whatever operating system they wanted to install on the devices they’ve purchased with their own money?
or installing any OS you want without voiding the warranty? I mean when you buy a computer, no one cares if you install Windows or Linux. So why do smartphone manufacturers care?
Unless a lot as changed, they do care.
Every single laptop and any prebuilt computer I find in the market comes pre installed with a Windows.
A good friend approached me to install a Linux on a brand new machine and just to make sure we called the customer support line, informing there was interest to return the windows license, as the software would not be used.
The reply we got was that by removing the software the warranty of the equipment would be null and void. The option was to ship the computer to their maintenance provider and have it removed, with costs presented at end for labour.
In the EU at least that would be illegal - you can’t void an entire warranty, only relevant bits… and since windows doesn’t have a warranty anyway…
The canonical example is you can’t void the warranty on a car engine because you changed the stereo. ‘Doing x will void the warranty’ is almost never the full story.
You say that like Apple would have to put in a ton of work for that. Android can already run on iPhones. It’s just an ARM computer. Project Sandcastle already exists. All they have to do is allow unlocking the bootloader just like they do on macs.
Well, an unlockable bootloader that allows flashing any operating system would be nice. You can install Linux on a Macbook, so why not an iPhone?
Hardware should not ever be locked to an operating system.
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*batterie exists out of two parts. One of them is fused to the screen.
Not a bad idea but there are flaws and this also doesn’t seem to address the issue of pricing or availability.
- So you can remove the battery, will you be able to buy one.
- They could prevent 3rd parties from making batteries that work.
- They could just not sell battery replacements.
- They could add more parts needed, like seals, screws that strip too easily, that annoying sticky tape etc.
Is the glass half full or half empty? For you, I guess it’s half empty.
Rules can be updated and tightened if needed. This is a good step, another could be taken if they don’t play nice.
I don’t see how you decide what my beliefs or views are by a single message, interpreted by you. Pretty unfair to assume not to mention when I already stated “Not a bad idea”. But your message makes a great point, the glass is half full and they have more work to make it full.
Of course it’s a step in the right direction. However, it could be better if they included more than just requiring the battery to be removable before hand. As is we have to wait until 2027, and then further delays for adjustments to be made etc. Why not spend the time now to add to it to ensure an available market.
You made 4 points about things that may or may not happen. For some of them you made the worst assumption possible (eg: batteries may not be available to buy. As if China won’t go brrrrrr making them :P ). And that’s why I said that “I guess” that for you the glass is half empty (aka you’re focusing mainly on possible issues).
You might be right of course, but keep in mind that the main players (eg: Samsung, Apple) already sell some components to 3rd parties or are starting to do so. Even Apple, with all their control, don’t disable 3rd party batteries on their phones, they just show you a warning inside the settings menu. So, from a slightly different point of view, the glass is actually half full and you may not need additional rules. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if someone wants to piss off the EU and have more rules imposed on them.
Anyway, it was a quick reply to the top comment on this thread (when I opened it at least). I didn’t spend much time trying interpret your comment :P
We already have regulations about spare parts availability and pricing for some devices (mainly household appliances) - and it is planned to slowly enforce regulation for other device types over time. They’ll watch the market, and if apple decides to be stupid that’ll come pretty quickly.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
I had a washing machine where the price of the replacement motherboard (ludicrous this is this even a thing, btw) was triple the price of the entire washing machine.
Making parts available doesn’t make it realistic to repair stuff.
replacement motherboard (ludicrous this is this even a thing
A lot of energy and water savings in modern machines are due to the electronics used. Also, replacement of weight to keep the machine from wandering around during spin cycles with sensors and attempts to rebalance laundry, if necessary.
was triple the price of the entire washing machine.
The EU commission is aware of that, though for now hopes their ecodesign initiative for repairable products will be enough to push vendors in the right direction. Given that all of this is pretty new it’s quite impressive to see how some vendors are embracing it already - I first noticed it when replacing an ancient kitchen oven, and in the shop next to spare sheets I could get all electronic components used in that thing.
I imagine they’ll monitor the situation, and will have a chat with problematic companies based on that, or consumer protection complaints - like they did with the switch joycon drift thing, which I think was one of the first instances where eco design was referenced as reason for taking action.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
Sure, if you call 1.3 years a few years…
Information like this gives hope for a better tomorrow.
They could start selling tiers of battery quality which TBH sounds awful if they make the best battery life duration paywalled.
Making them easily replaceable will create a market, a better one than we have today, almost any battery you can buy today as end-user are trash-tier.
Quality 3rd party batteries will rise up if the phone manufacturers fuck around.
Yeah, that’s possible. I’m more worried about a built in battery chip preventing users from sharing batteries, like once it’s installed, it’s activated and it’s locked to that device. Meaning you’d have to buy only from that manufacture and the price will be higher.
I’m hopeful that the EU would put a stop to this. They are pretty progressive on that front generally.
It needs to meet spec though.
The your last point the text specify that batteries can be safely removed and replaced using “basic and commonly available tools” and “without causing damage to the appliance or batteries.”
Yes, with basic and common tools. Doesn’t mean they have to be of quality, cheap metal screws for example. Hopefully not the case but it’d be annoying.
For example if they opt for the screw method, over the pop-off back (which I’d prefer). There will be screws to remove, most likely a gasket to replace, tape or something that ensures the battery doesn’t move around etc.
Even with current battery replacements, there is more parts then just the battery during the replacement. And of course “without causing damage” except if you have to remove the back that is glass and knock it off the table, that’s a +1 for apple, same if you loose a tiny screw or something else that is 1/1000 chance but Apple still makes money.
This insufferable shit is exhausting
Back in 2014 you just bought a spare and replaced it, nowadays they all want to play the same bullshit games Apple innovated on. It was was about time an authority that ruled over a market with significant purchasing power made a decision against it.
Although I think it’s too expensive, this is why we need frame.work to make a phone too (or any company to do this). Great idea, good products, their markup just seems too high imo.
The neat thing about EU regulations is that they are iterated over constantly, so even if they don’t get it 100% right the first time, they’re able to nail things down in subsequent iterations. Look at how quickly they struck down any fantasies Apple had of still fucking people over with their own type c implementation fuckery. The direction the EU is taking is already doing plenty good for the entire world.
Thank fucking god for the EU, for fighting for global digital rights where nobody else does.
We have a fake economy. All investments, researching and efforts could be decided by state (we/public). Protecting society interests and not “investors” interests is an obligation
According to republicans Europe is hell on Earth tho
-for Republicans that is.
mostly cuz EU gives rights and protections to consumers, not corporations
I understand. Unless you’re lining billionaire pockets and actively hurting the poor, Republicans are PISSED
They’re still liberal and give a lot more to corporations than they do people.
And yet to us Americans, we see that the EU does a billion times more for its citizens and we wish our country could be half as good about the things the EU does right.
Grass is always greener…
Actually the Europeans I’ve talked to with a small couple of exceptions very much like their “welfare state” and mainly like America for its entertainment. They do not typically want to live here. I wish I could live in Europe badly
I mean I am European :D I wouldn’t wanna trade either. But there are definitely some people here who still believe in an American Dream or like the idea of earning more and spending less on taxes living in the US. Really depends who you ask.
No wonder, while plenty right wing parties are on the rise here, too, overall people are at least somewhat less removed from actual reality.
Anywhere that isn’t a fascist theocracy is hell on Earth to many republicans
I’m sure many places that are are still Hell because they aren’t majority white and not fascist enough.
It’s funny how many of them unironically praise the Taliban. At least, it’s funny from my perspective looking in. I’m sure for a fellow citizen that’s a scary thought.
Fine by me. Nice and cozy 🤗
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
And imo this is not a sensible right. To change a battery in phones is easy even now. All you need is heat gun (hairdryer), new battery, phone tape (2$ ali) and 30 mins of your time…
Also watter resistance will take a hit… I wouldn’t sink my phone under watter with detachable back cover even if it had ip68 by producer. They don’t even cover it in reclamation now.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
True. Between the private healthcare, abortion rights, school shootings…
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about the US?
Compare to how it used to be, removing the battery cover and replacing the battery on the fly. And water resistance with removable batteries has been and can be done. Stop with this nonsense.
Does this mean we could potentially order phones from there as US folks?
Doubt Apple will have 2 different devices for each area.
