___
I’d rather they just focused on making the browser better to be honest. Let the EFF or another org do this type of work
The people who researched this topic and wrote that article are most probably not the ones working on the browser. As any company, Mozilla has departments.
I know I used to develop for it. My point was directed at the funding . The web needs a strong alternative to chrome now more than ever. Neutering projects like servo does not help. Also most non technical people don’t even know of Mozilla and anyone that does probably associates it with Firefox.
Anyway I’m downvoted for having a valid opinion. Whatever
Bob I’m going to need to look into that codec bug in Firefox. Also, how’s that car review coming along?
Damnit Bob, Firefox is still broken and we need that article on cars! Where do you think you are? Car and Driver?!? This is Mozilla, Bob! We have deadlines and if you can’t or won’t finish the editorial process while fixing the browser then you can move along to WaPo, or NYT, or Vanity Fair. Some rag outfit will take you if you cannot hack it as a hacker and investigational journalist for the MOZ!!
Mozilla is a large umbrella foundation that includes the for-profit Mozilla Corporation. The Foundation has always done plenty of work outside of the browser. I do agree that their browser development is having a ton of issues (for example, the lack of development of key features needed for the Android browser to be competitive, like a tablet UI and the slow roll-out of add-ons), but I think those are a result of flawed decision-making in the Corporation which happened independently of anything that the Foundation might be up to.
we need a mozilla or a linux car tbh…that is feature upgradable…like adding extensions or apps
We’ve had up until the last few years.
Never gonna happen unless governments force them.
What WILL happen is that more and more non-critical features will become pay to play. You’ll rent the air conditioner in your car.
Installing your own software will become (or likely already is) illegal since if you’re u do that you could play without pay on the car that you paid for with your money.
Corporations must be limited I’m what they can do, NOW. No more data monitoring and selling. No more ads pushed. No more pay to play. No more limiting what you can do with the products that you buy and own
We need cars that aren’t giant IoT boxes that keep phoning home. The vast majority of “smart” car systems shouldn’t need an Internet connection to function. But yes, I agree with your sentiment.
The Teslas are powered by Linux as far as I know.
Then we can joke for two decades that this year will be the year the Linux car will be able to drive
Someone could probably make a good amount of money charging like $50 to stick a nail through the cellular chip of new cars to disable that phone home shit.
We had a Mozilla phone. Enough is enough.
how did it fare haha ? at least there is no apple car to compete with…yet :/
Tesla is pretty much an Apple car with a locked down ecosystem and ridiculous warranty terms, which prevent regular evacuation. And even though Musk is a complete nutjob, Tesla is still holding 65.4% share of EV market.
Regular people just LOVE buying shit. So yeah, I’m not surprised that this privacy nightmare exists. When your main competitor sells hundreds of thousands of vehicles each year and completely dominates the market with draconian terms and conditions, utter privacy violations and ridiculous warranty terms, you kind of have to start doing the same shit or your company might end up bankrupt.
I understand that many people on Lemmy are unable to see the truth standing in front of them, but the reality is that no one gives a shit about privacy. If that wasn’t the case, there would be no Facebook, no Apple and Google and no Tesla. But they DO exist, they DO dominate the market and everyone who chooses a different business path goes down sooner or later.
disposable income is called as such for a reason.and these companies are just an extension for people’s whims since people have voted for them with their data and wallet. so the system is running as intended and there is no need to be worried
You just need an older car with a DIN profile radio. You can swap it out for whatever you want.
I should chuck in a box with homebrew firmware for the lulz.
yea man buy an old car and riddle it with fancy features: (TPMS):tire monitoring pressure system, Lidar for brake anticipation and also highway cruising, parking sensors and cameras back and front, dashcams front and back (even cameras at the door handles like a Tesla). Tbh i like it when an old car gets modded by third party with latest car features that way u really saving the environment from a ton of metal junk. A BMW or A Tesla are just filled to the brim with sensors, but also more parts mean more breaking parts so there should be a balance between refurbishing an old car and making it basically undriveable with breakdowns.
as long as the ecu allows u to start ur car even when changing the radio or tinkering with the infotainement system i wouldn’t mind…but i probably doubt it: car manufacturers will really tie critical car features to spying hardware so they could reach their end. yea, an older car is the best answer for this. also ecu firmwares and sensors and car parts needd to be open sourced somehow
Guess I’m happy my Toyota is the last model year that didn’t have a connection to the app that’s got privacy issues.
Thanks for linking this. Going to share it with some friends.
My car’s company isn’t on the list, but I can’t imagine they’re any better. My car is a little older, though, so I don’t think it has any way to phone home with any data…
Do new cars make you sign into your wifi with them or something? Or do they need a data connection? I suppose you could just not connect them, or even modify the hardware so it can’t transmit. There’s a joke here about putting your car into airplane mode, but I can’t find it.
Maybe a dumb question, but if all of the vehicle’s bells and whistles are meticulously recording my every move… how do those data get back to the auto manufacturer anyhow? I read the article and the “how that works” link, and sure it mentioned phone connectivity, but if I don’t connect my phone, then my car presumably has no way to communicate what it collects… or are there a bunch of extra radios that phone home (satellite, cellular…)?
Many (if not most) new cars have their own cellular service built in. They spin this as being able to hotspot to your vehicle if you pay for data or being able to remote lock/start your vehicle with their app. However, the vehicle manufacturer has their own plan allowing them to relay back telemetry data regardless of whether you buy a data package.
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That’s highly fucking illegal and extremely dangerous. You’re a fucking idiot
God you folk are dummies.
You’re a fucking idiot
There were a beautiful few weeks when Lemmy was a more pleasant place with better quality of discussion than reddit. Unfortunately that time seems to have passed.
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I’m pretty sure those are illegal.
Bruh those are highly illegal. At least in not backwards countries.
Youre also jamming other peoples services. what happens in an emergency?deleted by creator
God you folk are dummies.
Maybe people just don’t 100% trust the word of someone they don’t know on the internet, when they make claims without any supporting evidence. That’s not dumb; it’s appropriately cautious. Do you have any evidence to back up what you say?
And chinese laser pointers are also exactly the mw that is specified.
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I for one appreciate the information you’ve shared here.
But isn’t an ongoing cellular plan a cost for the manufacturer? How do they afford it?
They offset the cost with services. My pickup has a service where, for $15/month, I can replicate everything the key fob does for free, but with longer range using my phone. I don’t pay for it; in 9 years of owning the truck, not once have I had a need to unlock the doors or remote start it from farther away than the key fob reaches, but each person who does pay for it - and you know there are many out there that are all in - probably offsets the cost for several who do not.
If it offered more features, like letting me know how much fuel is in the tank or the condition of the filters and tire pressures - all of which is available in the on board computer - I’d be more interested, but I’m still not sure I’d pay $15/month for that.
Jokes on them, though - it has a 2G radio in it, which is now useless. They keep trying to get me to buy their upgraded radio for it “so I can keep using those services” that I don’t use. I was like, send it to me free and I’ll consider it, but they want me to pay $150 or something for it. Pass.
I intend to keep that pickup as close to forever as possible.
Cars don’t need much data, they should be fine on something like £10 per month plan. £10 * 12 = £120 per year. £120 * 10 = £1200 per 10 years. Car manufacturer can simply add £1200 to the price of a new car and you won’t even notice that. But they are definitely negotiating B2B tarrifs, so it’s probably even cheaper.
Well, they sell your data to 3rd party companies, completing the cycle that resulted in this article.
Miniscule amount of data. Probably cheap AF negotiated prices
please just fix your browser
Why is Mozilla consumer reports
Best way to sell a browser and software services built on privacy is to do a lot of consumer reports emphasizing the value of privacy.
This is what bothers me about Mozilla. They position themselves in the privacy space, but thus far their efforts there have not been shown in their actual browser, and only in what I would call clever “green washing” or “privacy washing”. That is why things like Mullvad browser have a market, because the people who actually care about privacy and have spent time to look at what Firefox actually provides in that respect, are not particularly impressed with their “privacy” stance being realized in their product. While I applaud Mozilla for putting this article out there, as it is beneficial to raise awareness about this issue, I wish they would put as much effort into the actual privacy of Firefox as they do in their marketing around it.
Somebody had to take up the mantle since Consumer Reports cannot be trusted anymore
What happened with consumer reports?
They keep it pretty narrow, their focus has always been very heavy in privacy. They don’t report on anything else really, just the privacy aspect.
Because when you’re big enough to have a recognizable brand name, it nearly unequivocally means you have to sell out to those who can fund you. Consumer Reports dropped off decades ago.
Oh cool! So cars will be free now since the manufacturers are turning drivers into the product. Right? Right guys? Cars will be free?
They will be CaaS
Didn’t Tesla and others already try this (and will probably keep pushing it)?
Things like monthly subscriptions for various car features working like seat warmers.
You’re thinking of BMW for the heated seats: https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature
And Toyota for being able to remote start your car with your keyfob. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob Which they later walked back when a lot of their customers pushed back on it: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob-remote-start-subscription-plan-after-massive-blowback
Tesla has some upgrades for a one time fee - like rear seat heaters and acceleration boost, and subscription ones - premium connectivity
CarS - cars are service
CarL - cats are liquid
That would be rentals
Or a lease
Sometimes I’m glad I drive an old, barebones features car.
Sadly my 34 year old car is off the road at the moment. I loved driving it because it was so simple. Basic on/off switches. No computers.
Same, not exactly old but it’s a 2016 Kia Rio in the minimal configuration. Can’t say whether the electric window openers or the CD player would take the number one spot for highest technological advancement.
My cars best tech is the CD player lmao
The car I put the most miles on (at least during the summer) doesn’t even have an ECU, so yeah you guys can have fun with all that high tech nonsense.
Any idea around what model year this started to take off? I drive a 2000 so I’m not worried now, but thinking of upgrading to something slightly newer.
There are EV conversion kits available, so it is possible to turn an old car electric. They won’t have the storage capacity of a natively electric car, but it is an option.
There are EV conversion kits available, so it is possible to turn an old car electric. They won’t have the storage capacity of a natively electric car, but it is an option.
Unless it’s a classic, don’t. Just don’t.
You’ll be forever fixing and tweaking it and the integration usually sucks.
I have a 2012 VW Golf 6 and it’s still ok. You can connect your phone via Bluetooth, but it acts more like a BT headset. It can show a contact list and caller ID, but that’s as far as it goes. Maps can only be updated by buying a special SD card from VW. The car itself cannot connect to the Internet at all. It can read mp3 music from USB drives and SD cards. It also has a cd drive, and radio.
I’m quite happy with what it has. I know WV isn’t very popular in the US, but it’s common in Eastern Europe.
Depends on the OEM, but generally late-2010s is when it became more ubiquitous.
Any car with an infotainment system is probably a “risk,” but especially '20s cars with features tied to apps are the real vulnerability here.
That is why I am sticking to my Citroens and Peugeot.
Mazda wasn’t on the list, so I was curious: https://www.mazdausa.com/site/privacy-connectedservices
At least they won’t sell your data without permission, for what it’s worth these days.
There’s also a number you can call to have them stop doing it, supposedly.
My favorite: It collects the GPS coordinates of where you turned off the car and transmits that information. Every time you shut off the engine. We didn’t get the nav feature in our 2020 Mazda 3, but the hardware is still there so it can do this (and so buyers can pay $300 for the SD card that makes it work, which we didn’t).
But at least most of the information they collect is about the car, not the people, unlike some of the other brands.
I wonder if they detect me cursing at the car when it does something stupid, like swerving back toward obstacles I was trying to avoid. (That “feature” got turned off. I don’t need that shit in my life.)
Unfortunately convincing my wife we should buy an older car that doesn’t have all this shit is going to be a huge mountain to climb. Sigh. I hate new cars.
Permission is probably mandatory to use your car.
By operating the car, you hereby grant us permission to perform the services outlined herein.
By being within 100m of a mazda vehicle, you hereby grant us permission to perform the services outlined herein.
FTFY
*847 pages of legalese.
https://www.nissanusa.com/privacy.html
Sensitive personal information, including driver’s license number, national or state identification number, citizenship status, immigration status, race, national origin, religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity, precise geolocation, health diagnosis data, and genetic information.
Please make this reach the front page because it’s beyond ridiculous
BuT tHeY nEeD tHaT sO tHeY kNoW hOw nOt tO dIsCrImInAtE aGaInSt yOu.
I don’t see how the things you highlighted are worse than any of the rest of it.
It’s all bad.
How would your car even know your sexual activity?
I have no facts, but I assume via cameras which might record whatever you’re doing in the car.
I was real curious about that too. Seems like its just a disclaimer that ya might get hacked and have you car sex leaked on pornhub.
by you parking four hours infront of a known brothel or by you shagging someone on the backseat of your char, clearly. /some sarcasm in there
Per the article…
They can collect personal information from how you interact with your car, the connected services you use in your car, the car’s app (which provides a gateway to information on your phone), and can gather even more information about you from third party sources like Sirius XM or Google Maps.
In addition, my car uses text-to-speech to read texts to me and I can even reply to them with speech-to-text. Any data that passes from your phone through your car could easily be harvested. You should also assume that any data on your phone can be harvested by the car’s app if you install it.
How does it know the information is medical or genetic, if it captures text messages?
Any information they get is going to be examined for keywords at the very minimum. If, for example, you text your wife about test results from the doctor’s office, they can add that to the profile they’re making of you. If you get a text from a cardiologists office saying your results are in, they can infer you have heart troubles. Things like that.
How do they even capture this stuff? Are you expected to write some essays before you can buy the car?
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At the very least… cant the US implement one of the basic rules from GDPR?
In simple terms, what data can companies keep?
Data need to have: OK
Data nice to have: Not OK
The US will absolutely not implement anything remotely like GDPR, because that would hurt the profits of a LOT of companies who happen to have a LOT of lobbyists on K street.
I’d much rather they implement the right to deletion. I know they will get their hands on a ton of data, regardless of how we write the clause. But at least let me delete that data when I want it gone.
And how often will you have to keep asking for your data to be deleted?
Companies are held to certain expedience standards when it comes to removal. If you request it and the company doesn’t delete within the described maximum time, they will get fined under GDPR.
No matter how often you ask or what the answer is, you likely won’t be able to tell if it has actually been deleted anyway.
GDPR includes right to delete data too.
I know, this was inresponse to the other post about which parts of the GDPR to implement. If I had to pick any one feature to carry over from the GDPR into whatever legislation we get on this side of the ocean, I’d pick the right to deletion.
If you don’t mind, please also highlight
health diagnosis data
genetic information
Because omfg, think about those for a second, and how any data that leaves your control is subject to eventual collection by law enforcement, legal or not, and anyone else willing to pay for it (or steal it):
For example, some bonehead rears your vehicle one day, but your health diagnosis data says you have a heart condition, or maybe just high blood pressure. These conditions can involve occasional lightheadedness, though you know yours is well controlled. You don’t even think about it anymore because you take care of yourself and all your regular tests are good. But suddenly, you’re in this minor accident, not even your fault, and it’s no longer a simple rearending because some asshole has brought your health history into it so that YOU and not he will be on the hook for monetary damages.
(Triple if the bozo who hit you is some lame ass drunk rural county sheriff or elected official.)
And “genetic information” is code for DNA. How they would collect your DNA from your car I don’t know, but do you REALLY want your genetic information associated with your vehicle and outside the confines of GINA* for the convenience of data sellers? I know I don’t. (GINA is also the law that binds companies like 23andMe from selling your genetic data.) But the whole point of trying to legislate personal control over your own genetic information is because of all the dystopian scenarios that can easily evolve from others having it without your consent.
Yet now your car wants it too? Question this. Letting anyone have it by such means does a complete end run around any law meant to keep your personal genetic information private, and guts any rights you may have to your own privacy under the law, because you signed it away. Imagine the billions insurance companies could make, both health and auto, by refusing to pay for this or that because genetically it was a “pre-existing condition” or a “contributing factor” to you getting rearended by a drunk.
I’ve never been so thrilled to drive an ancient beater in my life.
*Note: GINA is weak already, but legislators are trying to weaken it further still: in 2018 a proposed change meant that “Employers would have been able to demand workers’ genetic test results if the bill were to have been enacted.”
I don’t want to edit the post but consider as if it was done, thanks for the addition
I don’t know where you live, but it already illegal to hide any health data from road authorities in many countries like UK. If you get a lightheadedness from a know diagnosis and get into a crash, you will not only be prosecuted for the crash itself, but also for fraud that you’re unfit to drive. Double criminal sentence, enjoy!
To be fair the UK is farther along the dystopian nightmare surveillance state path than the US.
Not really.
K
How and where are they actually capturing that data exactly?
If you don’t have anything to hide then you don’t have anything to worry about!
They are making money off me without paying me for it
I agree with you but look at the dude’s name, they probably are a troll. Regardless, watching the debate between ILikeBoobies and MrBusinessMan, the two sages has been thrilling.
So? That’s what businesses are supposed to do. Make money. You should invest in the company and then you’ll make money off of the money they make off you.
You realize this literally sounds like some shit a 90s comic would have had the corporate villain say, right
No, the bad guys are usually the opposite. They want to steal from rich people and make everybody the same or do a revolution. Haven’t you seen any of the Batman movies?
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Why do you hate progress?
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My grandma isn’t alive so it wouldn’t even bother her and making money is good, I hope they earn as much as possible so my investments do better!
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Companies typically pay their workers
I am creating the product that they sell
Nope, you’re just raw materials to be mined.
Then I own the land and they should be leasing it from me
You’ll own nothing and you’ll like it, get back to work
You really aren’t. You’re a small piece of the product that they sell.
Look, if they can’t afford to make a profit selling people’s data without paying everyone at least minimum wage then the industry shouldn’t exist
Cool, where’s my small piece of the profits?
If you don’t own shares you aren’t entitled to any of the profits.