• @Matriks404@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      53 months ago

      I’ve got a full screen ad for Windows 11 one day, despite having TPM 2.0 turned off. Not sure what exactly was written there, as I have turned it off immediately, but fuckers probably advertise their shitty “Windows 11-compatible” computers or some other shit.

  • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    163 months ago

    They don’t need the hardware to run an OS. They need the hardware to run their AI shit for reasons nobody ever needs - except Microsoft.

    So maybe it is not Microsoft closing the door for older hardware, but older hardware closing the door for Windows 11?

    • @tal@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      213 months ago

      They need the hardware to run their AI shit

      The requirement is for TPM, not parallel processing hardware. It provides trusted hardware, facilitates things like DRM.

        • @tal@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          83 months ago

          Did you read the article text? It’s specifically discussing how Microsoft will not relax the requirement for TPM 2.0.

          • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -53 months ago

            Which is on the market for more than six years now. That was my point. It does not only need TPM2.0, it also needs CPU and RAM in regions that are way more recent than TPM2.0

            • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              23 months ago

              The CPU is due to instruction set requirements. The first version of W11 is technically compatible (with hack to pass the checks) with older CPUs than the newer versions. And it’s not Gusty’s guaranteed that there ones that currently can run it will do it after a few updates.

              I hate it, and they could have done things to allow more compatibility, but it’s not without a technical reason.

            • @tal@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              English
              6
              edit-2
              3 months ago

              I feel that this is diverging from your original comment, but okay, Windows 11 – as with all prior releases of Windows – has minimum CPU and memory requirements. That isn’t what the article text is discussing, but fair enough.

              But I don’t see any association with that and AI. This isn’t parallel processing hardware being discussed.

              • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                23 months ago

                But I don’t see any association with that and AI. This isn’t parallel processing hardware being discussed.

                The one big eater of CPU power in future Windows will most likely be AI. Most of which will probably be useless for the user, which is a common problem with Windows “features” in recent years.

                I can easily see a Microsoft AI engine churning the users data in order to determine which ads to serve - in the start menu, the screen backgrouns, the login screen, or as blatant popups. If people notice that such a thing is seriously eating into their machines’ power, they will try harder to kill this. Therefor it is the interest of Microsoft that the user has more than enough power. And this is just one example.

  • @FinishingDutch@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    353 months ago

    Non negotiable sounds fine with me. Because we don’t negotiate with terrorists.

    I’d like to give a heartfelt thank you to Microsoft management though, for furthering the cause of Linux adoption. We couldn’t have done it without you. 🙏

  • qyron
    link
    fedilink
    English
    223 months ago

    The used market is going to bomb if older machines can’t be setup with newer windows version.

    • @adarza@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      83 months ago

      ‘incompatible’ hardware will be dirt cheap, and 8th gen or newer will sell for more than it would have otherwise–especially if tariffs jack prices up on new hardware.

      i have a couple dozen older systems here. most were given to me before win11’s requirements were known. fixing and flipping them for a few bucks was a small but relatively steady income stream, but not anymore. hardly anyone wants them.

      the couple that are new enough to be blessed by microsoft will be kept, and i’ll hang on to the better ones of the rest (like skylake, kaby lake) to put linux on. everything else will end up at ewaste recyclers even though there’s absolutely nothing wrong with any of them other than the fact that a profit and ‘shareholder value’ driven megacorp says they can’t be used anymore.

      • Unruffled [they/them]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        13 months ago

        It’s fairly trivial to bypass Microsoft’s hardware requirements for windows 11 afaik. Just install via Rufus and click the relevant options. I agree with you that MS should have made these optional recommendations though, we shouldn’t have to use third party tools.

        • @adarza@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          33 months ago

          microsoft keeps tightening the screws; there’s no guarantee a loophole to do that will remain–but rather the opposite: they will disappear.

        • @superkret@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          3
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          You can do that, but then the major updates MS pushes out twice a year won’t install via Windows Update anymore.

      • qyron
        link
        fedilink
        English
        33 months ago

        Maybe the tariffs will serve to cull a bit of the consumist impulse the US suffers of.

        Regarding if a machine is desirable or not: I’m still seeing Windows XP machines being sold today for over 100€. No monitor, no peripherals, no nothing: just the machine. And people needing a machine to type a report, do a spreadsheet, do basic office work, with no other option, pay for it.

        i run my machines until they stop working, period.

  • @Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    133 months ago

    Thank you Microsoft after being a windows user since the 3.1 days your recent changes to Windows makes me happy to announce I bought my first MAC.

      • @rottingleaf@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        83 months ago

        Because they don’t know that MAC is media access control, and Mac is Macintosh.

        I suspect it’s the “Mac vs PC” stereotype, and they think C stands for computer and MA stands hell knows for what. Because a PowerPC PC is not a PC, and an ARM PC is not a PC, and a SPARC PC is not a PC (OK, it’s a workstation, of the noble blood, not like the rest), and I think I’ve lost my thought.

        My reaction would not be switching to MacOS, because for something the users of which look down on Linux and FreeBSD, with all that “just works” and “made for Terrans” pathos, it surely is frustrating to use.

        Just some well-supported enough Linux would do.

      • @Valmond@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        93 months ago

        Its a Media access control address, AKA MAC address that he bought ofc. It lives inside his ethernet card.

        I’m up too early, sorry.

      • @Ensign_Seitler@startrek.website
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        It’s like in Unpretty, that 90s song by TLC:

        you can buy your hair if it won’t grow

        you can fix your nose if you say so

        you can buy all the iPhones that MAC can make

  • Lippy
    link
    fedilink
    493 months ago

    That’s fine, I’ve closed the door on supporting Microsoft. They could have just charged for the ‘upgrade’ and that would have been better since it wouldn’t result in the colossal amount of e-waste that this is creating. Even without the forced obsolescence, their products have become hostile, invasive and generally just a PITA to use. Meanwhile Linux distros are knocking it out of the park lately.

    I really don’t know what Microsoft are thinking. They haven’t made particularly good strides towards gaining any kind of goodwill, so once it becomes common knowledge that alternatives not only exist but actually show them up, those lost customers are people that they will never get back. Look how pathetic their marketshare is for Edge for example, even though it’s the default browser on Windows. They still haven’t been able to shake off the bad stigma that Internet Explorer had (and to be fair, they aren’t doing people any favours with Edge either).

    • Prehensile_cloaca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      15
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      The new Outlook is fucking awful.

      How did they fuck up email? Just put them all on the left and let me read and move them in the fewest clicks possible.

      • @rottingleaf@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        13 months ago

        If you go to Google and search for xview mailtool screenshots, you might realize just how fucked up today’s email UIs are.

      • @notthebees@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        23 months ago

        also trying to add more emails to outlook. How do you fuck that up. You only get the options for suggested emails or new email creation.

  • @MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    53 months ago

    What i wonder, is:

    • TPM a black box and then, why should i trust it
    • if not, why not just use RAM as protected memory instead?
  • @zephorah@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    983 months ago

    This feels like such a fuck you to working class. People can’t afford another layer of these costs right now.

    • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      -293 months ago

      … This is bait right? You want somebody to tell you there’s a simple and free solution, and then you’re going to say it’s a bad solution?

      FINE! I’ll bite: Pirated copy of Windows Enterprise LTSC. It’s less useful, more resource hungry, privacy invasive and has worse support for older hardware than Linux though.

      • @Hadriscus@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        353 months ago

        Working class people at large don’t know about these alternatives, I’m certain you know that. IT folk and nerds alike do, but anyone outside of these circles don’t necessarily see the choice they have

        • @Crozekiel@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          123 months ago

          Those people that don’t know options exist are also people that don’t care about or know about support life for something like the OS - they just see it as what the computer comes with. Most of them probably wouldn’t have upgraded from 7 to 10 without it just doing it itself. A lot of them will just keep using 10 well past the end of support.

          Also, I really enjoyed Railcar’s subversion of expectations with all that lead up to what we all assumed was a Linux recommendation to end up being pirated windows. That got a chuckle out of me. I feel like the haters didn’t get the joke.

          • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            93 months ago

            I feel like the haters didn’t get the joke.

            Their computer didn’t come with sense of humor pre-installed, and it’s too hard to do it themselves.

        • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          7
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          Working class people at large don’t know about these alternatives,

          You mean only the elite know about Linux? Preposterous!

          *proceeds to clean monocle

          Jokes aside, it might be a good time to teach and learn. Or pay, or have less security moving forward.

          It was a staple of the “working class” to be resourceful, to know to repair stuff. It’s on Microsoft best interest that you change the computer, that you pay another OEM license, that they can drop support for older hardware… And this will happen again with windows 12.

        • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          03 months ago

          Working class doesn’t have the money to change to machine either.

          So, what’s the advice that you would give you working class? Pay, pirate or learn?

      • @kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -63 months ago

        Objectively speaking Linux is not a Windows replacement, its a minix replacement and competes with FreeBSD. Not everyone wants Linux and tbh I wouldnt reccomend Linux to most people.

        • @Railcar8095@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          63 months ago

          I’m very interested on a longer explanation of this take, considering how many people use Linux as a replacement for windows.

          And if the argument is “not everything that runs on windows works on Linux”, remember that can be said with windows vs Mac, iOS vs android and even windows 10 vs windows 11.

          • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            93 months ago

            They’re “technically” correct. That’s what Torvalds initially created it as. But what it initially was, and now is are very different things. I’m sure they would call OSX a BSD replacement and not a Windows replacement. Despite many people replacing windows with it. It’s pedantically obtuse.

            Right now the biggest wall from wider consumer adoption of Linux. Is honestly, simply the lack of systems offered to consumers with it. Outside of a few games with kernel level anti cheat. Or highly proprietary specialized softwares. There’s very little that you cannot currently do on Linux that you can do on Windows.

            Your Average user/consumer doesn’t install any operating system. Whether it is Windows Linux or Mac OS. They simply run what the computer came with. And that’s always been windows unless it is an Apple computer. That’s part of what the 1999 antitrust suit would have sought to remedy. Microsoft punished any company that had dared to even offer systems with Linux for a long time. And nothing was ever really done to stop it.

            • @rottingleaf@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              23 months ago

              I’m sure they would call OSX a BSD replacement

              No they wouldn’t. That’s Linux, among other things, because when it was gaining popularity, BSDs were defending from lawsuits and rewriting litigious parts belonging to AT&T (that is, preserved from original Unix sources).

              Right now the biggest wall from wider consumer adoption of Linux. Is honestly, simply the lack of systems offered to consumers with it. Outside of a few games with kernel level anti cheat. Or highly proprietary specialized softwares. There’s very little that you cannot currently do on Linux that you can do on Windows.

              No. Actually no, that’s not the biggest wall.

              Under modern Windows you can run software compiled for Windows XP. Under Linux you’ll have a lot of sex with your system before achieving that kind of backwards compatibility.

              Since you mentioned BSDs, and they are similar to Linux in daily usage, with FreeBSD you may install compat4x, compat5x and so on packages and run rather old binaries. FreeBSD version of Opera browser (yep, they made a FreeBSD version), which was a binary from Opera Software, didn’t receive an update since 2013 and till 2021 and it was in working condition.

              This wall for your typical Windows user is hard to describe. They are doing something the only normal way they understand and are told that they are holding it wrong. Say, they install a package for the previous major version of their distribution. Or just try to run some binary downloaded from somewhere and it tells them angry things about libc version and possibly other libraries.

              Also the “advanced” things under Linux are not usable for many people, and the “user-friendly” things are complex and buggy.

              Of course, Windows users also would really like to use their familiar Windows applications, but that’s not as important, Wine solves a lot of it.

        • bitwolf
          link
          fedilink
          English
          53 months ago

          Written from a mobile phone powered by a minix replacement.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)
          link
          fedilink
          English
          03 months ago

          Drag would recommend Linux to everyone, except for the very small minority who plan to install a non-Linux OS on their android phones.

    • @atrielienz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      73 months ago

      With sales from companies? Yes. With sales from average consumers? Maybe not. Depends on what they can afford. There’s people out there still using things like windows 7. If the computer still works they’re unlikely to upgrade unless they care about having the newest stuff.

      • Elvith Ma'for
        link
        fedilink
        English
        83 months ago

        A friend of mine just messaged me, that we cannot play a few selected games anymore, as his notebook was acting up. Upon further investigation I found out, that he is still running Windows 8.1 and cannot use Steam anymore, since Steam support on Windows 8.1 ended about a year ago and a Chrome update “finally” broke Steam on windows 8.1 a few weeks ago.

        • @atrielienz@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          23 months ago

          My mom only upgraded from her original surface pro running windows 8 when my siblings and I bought her a surface pro 7. She watches Netflix and checks her email and plays like plants vs zombies and solitaire. Some people really do live by the rule of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.

    • Pika
      link
      fedilink
      English
      43 months ago

      I’m waiting for the planned obsidence lawsuit myself

          • Darth_Mew
            link
            fedilink
            English
            1
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            I still don’t know what you are talking about and I’m not trying to be stubborn

            • @Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              13 months ago

              My bad, I thought you were making a joke about Pika saying “planned obsidence” instead of “planned obsolescence.” I did not realize you were making a genuine inquiry.

              Planned obsolescence is when businesses intentionally design a product to become useless after a period of time.

              For example, imagine a high end camera company that also sells replacement parts. They change their lens shape every model, and only keep the most recent models’ lenses in production. When an older model’s lens inevitably breaks, the customer cannot buy a replacement, and thus has pressure to buy s new camera, and the company hopes that most customers will buy from them again.

              We see this in tech with smartphone companies only giving OS updates for a few years, causing older phones to go end of life, so even if the phone is fully functional it needs to be replaced. Again, the company hopes the customer will again buy from them rather than going to a competitor (who is likely running the same scheme.)

              OP suggests Microsoft’s TPM requirement is there to force new computer sales, which will include a purchase of a Windows 11 OEM license bundled with the PC.

    • m-p{3}
      link
      fedilink
      English
      373 months ago

      It would be safer to use a Linux flavor and run the apps you need using Wine/Proton…

        • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          43 months ago

          There is a KDE windows aero theme. The panels won’t mimic the start menu and bar perfectly. But it absolutely gives it an overall flavor.

        • megane-kun
          link
          fedilink
          English
          13 months ago

          KDE Plasma + Klassy can do that. I think you can pull off a Win7 look with just those two.

          KDE Plasma can get you far with its customization options, and Klassy adds more customization on top of that, and adds the translucent/transparent effects you need to emulate the Win7 look.

          • @LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            13 months ago

            Old Gnome2-era themes will always win out imo. I tried looking for neat Plasma themes but a lot of em are just very basic colour swaps, nothing out there

            • megane-kun
              link
              fedilink
              English
              13 months ago

              KDE themes are a mixed bag for me. On one hand, they can potentially provide theming for little to no effort on my part (provided I do find a pre-made theme to my liking), but on the other, I had more luck with mixing and matching (and a lot of tweaking) different theme components (that is: color theme, application style, plasma style, window decorations, icon theme, cursor theme, etc). It’s a lot of work, and the result might not exactly be coherent, but you can really tweak quite a lot.

              I haven’t really tried emulating the win7 look and feel by customizing KDE Plasma, but I think it’s possible. Someone in this comment chain claimed there’s a Win7 theme available, albeit not pulling it off perfectly. I guess that can be used as a starting point.

        • @barsoap@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          13 months ago

          Just a heads up while the look might be easy to emulate the feel part will at best be close. Which is actually good because a lot about that is rather shoddy in windows… and focussing on getting what you had with windows might make you miss stuff you didn’t think you wanted. Like MMB click on scrollbars, or dragging and resizing windows with Super+LMB/RMB

          • @LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            1
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            Thanks. I’ve been a daily Linux user since 2013, distro-hopping between every environment and whatnot, these days mostly on i3/tmux/vim on Kali for HackTheBox.

            I use Windows 10 on my main PC for media/flight/race/milsimming with an Aero skin that gets pretty darn close, without using WindowBlinds, using SecureUxTheme tool, cracked StartIsBack and some theme I got off the Frutiger Aero subreddit, looks great with WACUP, 8Gadgets, Aerochat and some Windhawk mods like the old Win7 Taskbar Clock (instead of the W10 XAML one)

          • @kazerniel@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            13 months ago

            same, I stuck with Win7 for years after its support period ended because I didn’t want to lose Aero 🥺

  • redfellow
    link
    fedilink
    English
    153 months ago

    Fyi you can install it without TPM 2 hardware, if using Rufus to create the installer, you can just tick an option to remove tpm forcing.

    That’s if you want to keep using Windows after 2025 on a 7+ year old hardware.

    Not endorsing it, just saying you can, at no extra cost.

    • @reksas@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      93 months ago

      if you want to risk random update potentially bricking your computer or at least your os breaking, not worth it

    • @rumba@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      43 months ago

      That’ll work until they actually make it do something with the TPM.

      I bet in 3 years they’ll require an AI accelerator.

      • redfellow
        link
        fedilink
        English
        33 months ago

        As far as I’m aware TPM 2 pretty much does with hardware, what is otherwise software emulated. It’s more efficient and secure when using something like bitlocker etc. Everything should work, just is more suspectible to tampering and malware.